Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kip Bouknight

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Wizardman 15:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kip Bouknight

Kip Bouknight (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Minor-league baseball player, has never gone above AAA, otherwise undistinguished. PROD tag added by immediately removed without comment by anon IP. Calton | Talk 00:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete not notable. Oysterguitarist~Talk 01:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. fails WP:N Matt/TheFearow (Talk) (Contribs) (Bot) 01:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. I agree that his professional career has not been notable, however I created the article as he was a Golden Spikes Award winner as the best amateur player in the nation in 2000. Delete if necessary, but consider that very exclusive award in the process. Jsh726 01:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
First, I want to make it known that I am Jsh726; this is not an attempt at sock-puppetry, I don't really understand the motivation for that sort of thing, I merely cannot log in to wikipedia from my work computer. I've added quite a bit more to the Bouknight article to support his notability. A comparable athlete with no outstanding question as to notability is Gino Torretta, a Heisman award winner with no success as a professional. If the NFL had a development system like that of the MLB, Toretta would not have played a single down at the top professional level. That does not make his amazing collegiate body of work any less notable. 69.24.32.162 15:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep May not have accomplished much in the minors, but is notable for achievements at collegic level (Golden Spikes Award). Corpx 02:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Except that there's not a whisper of a hint of a suggestion of notable achievement, or even any sources whatsoever. --Calton | Talk 04:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Winning the Golden Spikes itself is pretty notable. The references were there, except there was no references section at the bottom (I just added it). Corpx 17:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per Corpx. Also, I notice that there is a category for minor league players. Either all should get deleted, or there needs to be another notability rule. Ngchen 02:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Fully satisfies WP:BIO "Athletes: Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis ." The Baseball minor league players are professionals. Ergo, the guideline is satisfied. Edison 04:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Nope, that's not really the case. (note in the last one that even User:badlydrawnjeff doesn't buy that notion). And there's plenty of precedent on AFD for deleting minor league plyer articles. --Calton | Talk 04:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep professional baseball players, or else tell me what separates the notable one from the non-notable ones. Best just to keep them all. Capmango 05:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Add-on comment: additionally, throwing a no-hitter, even in single-A, strikes me as notable. Capmango 23:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment This has to be sorted out once and for all. Either minor league baseball players are notable or they're not. Which is it to be? They can't all be fought out on a case by case basis otherwise a lot of time is going to be wasted which could be put to better use. The rules are clear for Cricket (first class and list A games count, other games don't unless there's a very good reason) and for Soccer so it can be done. I would lean towards not, and I'm an inclusionist, but I'll leave it to people who know what they're talking about on this subject to decide. Nick mallory 10:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 12:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I know this isn't the place for the discussion, but my vote would be Major League + AAA players are automatically in, AA and below would only be considered notable for some other reason outside baseball (e.g. Michael Jordan was a notable AA ball player). Capmango 15:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
At the rate at which players get "called up" and "sent back", I dont think even AAA is notable. Corpx 17:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, that's part of my reasoning. If we're going to say major leaguers meet notability, then when a AAA player gets called up for a cup of coffee, he gets notable. There are also many areas of USA where AAA ball is a really big deal. Of course, my proposed guideline doesn't help us with leagues outside the U.S., I don't have enough knowledge there. Capmango 17:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think organizational level can be the cut off, it has to be case by case. Making it to the bigs in itself doesn't always mean notability, and a guy may only make AAA because he is too old for rookie leagues, however a AA stud may be entirely notable for awards and performance in the past. Take Brandon Watson for example. Is he notable for batting .176 in a few cups of coffee for very bad Nationals teams, or is he notable for breaking the International League hit streak record? How about Alex Gordon, was he non-notable until April 1, 2007 when he broke into the MLB for the 1st time? Previously he had only played in AA and below, but take a look at his resume, it's worth an article.69.24.32.162 17:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
someone with more wikiknowlege than me, where should we move this discussion to? General discussion of baseball notability should take place elsewhere but I don't know where. We can't just send every ball player to AfD, a) we'd be overwhelmed, and b) we'd have wildly inconsistent results depending on who was there that day. The general standard for athletes is an athlete is presumed notable if s/he has played in a fully professional league (if not, may still be notable for other reaons). The question is how to apply fully professional league to American baseball. Fully is a fuzzy word. My take on it is that you can make a living playing AAA ball, but you can't make a living playing AA ball, so maybe AA should not count as "fully" professional. We should reach a consensus and fold it into the guideline for athletes. Capmango 23:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Apparently this has been covered in WP:BASEBALL and consensus there is only major leaguers get automatic notablity. So I was just rambling above. Capmango 05:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
"WP:BASEBALL is a project, and not a notability guideline. If editors who follow baseball feel that minor league players are not notable, then they should be bold and edit WP:BIO to say so, rather than having a guideline say one thing and insist that it should be ignored. Edison 18:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I think the keep for this article was based on his accomplishments at the collegic level, and not in the minors. Corpx 16:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per that one award he got. Barely passes the guidelines, but it does. Kwsn(Ni!) 17:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Add-on In WP:BIO, it says "The person has received significant recognized awards or honors." under the general guideline, which comes before the athletic one. Kwsn(Ni!) 17:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep but barely, only because he won the Golden Spikes Award. Blueboy96 01:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.