Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenkojuku

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep JERRY talk contribs 04:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kenkojuku

Kenkojuku (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This article does not assert notability. It is a small number of local karate dojos, which do not have any sort of notable influence. RogueNinjatalk 17:52, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Weak keep: Although it was me who requested proving notability of the article, I believe the school may be encyclopedic. First of all, Kenkojuku has dojos in different states, so saying that it is "local" is not entirely justified. Also, it is more notable in google than shotorenmei or "North American Karate Do Federation", not to mention "American Shotokan Karate Federation", which we list in shotokan. It definitely does exist, is a particular shotokan school with dojos in more than one state, and (better than some others) does derive from Funakoshi's direct student who, at first glance, is notable (and thus his own federation may be worth mentioning at least in an article on him). I suggested to RogueNinja that the author of the article (who is a newcomer to Wikipedia) should be given one week to improve the article and add external references and sources, but apparently this request was refused. As a result, I have to vote to keep the article, as all in all I believe it will be worse for Wikipedia to lose this information, than to retain it (although, perhaps, rather under Tomosaburo Okano than the other way around). Still, I do agree the article needs improvement and notability needs to be proven. Pundit|utter 18:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Just a couple of things... Someone mentioned that I was the owner of the dojo - not the case, just a student for about 17 years. I know that this style is a direct descendant form Funikoshi, but as with a lot of the martial arts around traditional styles, documentation, especially online documentation is very hard to come by. I am interested in working on this article further, but my time is limited (yeah, I'm sure that's been said before...). So, if we can keep it as is for now, I will get back to it and make a best effort attempt to beef it up further. Note: I am not adverse to keeping the content under a page for Okano if that would help. Thanks for your patience with me... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregmarch (talk • contribs) 14:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
    I made an assumption you're a dojo owner because of this, but I understand you are a dojo's webmaster then. Please, do expand the article, but first of all add external, reliable sources to the article - Wikipedia cannot take any claims for the facevalue. Even common knowledge must be supported by references. Pundit|utter 15:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Having studied Shotokan Karate for over 40 years and being quite familiar with various styles of Karate my feeling is that the article should be kept. Kenkojuku dojos, and students of Kenkojuku dojos can be found worldwide. Sensei Okano was a genuine Karate Master. He and his students never abandoned traditional karate training and values. Sensei Okano's students are among the very best Karate practitioners in the world, some recognized through tournaments, magazine covers, etc. most taking a traditional path (practicing, teaching but not exploiting the art through sport karate or tournaments). Because of their focus on “traditional karate” many of his students are less visible than the household karate names such as Chuck Norris. However, if one were to actually observe Sensei Okano’s students level of skill compared to some of the Karate household names one would be stunned at the degree of excellence of Sensei Okano’s students who seldom seek recognition. I believe the references to Sensei Okano's students should be limited to his direct students. If we go a generation after his direct students the students would number in the tens if not hundreds of thousands.

The reference, “Some of his most famous students outside of Japan are Masters Takeshi Akuzawa, Toyotaro Miyazaki, Kazuo Kuriyama, Masakazu Takahashi, Koji Sugimoto and Minoru Horie.”, should be kept. Masakazu Takahashi is now Head of Kenkojuku in the US and Worldwide and should be clearly mentioned. The others in the above reference were or are important students of Sensei Okano and deserve recognition as well.

The last reference Sensei Andrew Faupel at the end of the article with pictures comes across as an advertisement. Sensei Faupel with all due respect is not one of Sensei Okano’s direct students. His lineage would fall underneath Sensei Takahashi. It is important to represent Kenkojuku which has a significant place in the history of Karate in the US and Japan and now Worldwide. However we don’t want the article to be an advertisement for a specific dojo.

J.Pilgramson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.56.13.6 (talk) 18:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

If what you write is true, you will find no trouble with confirming these claims by referring to reliable third-party resources (martial arts magazines, books, journals etc.). Without such even the sentences that may be perceived as most obvious can be challenged and removed. The article does not cite any sources and a such is not fulfilling Wikipedia standards. Pundit|utter 18:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ˉˉanetode╦╩ 12:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Keep – and change name to Kenkojuku Karate Association. Enough coverage to claim noatability as shown here [1] Shoessss |  Chat  13:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, if we are to keep it, Kenkojuku is a much more intuitive name, and there are no other kenkojuku associations/federations, so there is no need for distinguishing this way. Pundit|utter 15:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.