Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kempler video

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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. mikka (t) 20:48, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kempler video

Non-notable conspiracy theory being promoted by userid created to promote this and other conspiracy theories by Barry Chamish. Very few Google hits, and those are mostly from Wikipedia pages or mirrors. Jayjg (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Question for Jay et al: Why is it any different from the Zapruder film that has its own Wikipedia article? IZAK 10:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Jayjg (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. If we allow conspiracy theories to roam here, the quality of WP as a seious encyclopedia will deteriorate. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 21:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep Why would this particular conspiracy theory be non-notable? I do guess it's only really relevant to Israeli. So perhaps this vfd discussion would benefit from an Israeli's POV?--Lomedae 21:33, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Unadulterated rubbish. We already have Barry Chamish and Yitzhak Rabin assassination conspiracy theories for the nutcases to play with. By the way, I got this video off the internet soon after it first appeared on Israeli TV and I still have it. The claim that it was somehow suppressed until the intrepid Chamish uncovered it is pure BS. --Zero 10:30, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Because it is the only film of Rabin's assasination, --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 16:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Vote changed to Merge into Yitzhak Rabin and Yitzhak Rabin assassination conspiracy theories. Because although important, it doesn't need its own page. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 01:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Is it harmful to anyone? if the conspiracy theory is not the true - it`s just another conspiracy theory.

BUT if it`s true - it`s a revolution that might begin from WIKI.

  • Keep. Because it is the only film of Rabin's assasination, small group works hard to keep video off wiki --Kempler Video plus it took me 6 hours to write the article, and I looked at the video maybe 50 times
  • Delete. Non-notable personal conspiracy theory, inherently POV. SlimVirgin (talk) 19:45, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - Deletion would be censorship. --Rebroad 20:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. The video itself isn't inherently POV, and it's the basis for a number of popular conspiracy theories (which, IMO, makes it notable). I think this could be fixed with {{NPOV}} and {{cleanup}} tags. Those tags would hopefully provide motivation to cite sources and present the article neutrally. HKT talk 23:01, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Why is there an attempt to censor this? The video exists, doesn't it? Has been shown on TV. Made some waves, even if rather small. Why should we suppress mention of it? Grace Note 06:03, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - I don't believe a NPOV version of this article is possible. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 12:21, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
    • Weak Conditional Keep - The article must cite more sources and take care to be NPOV. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:57, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • People, stop this nonsense about censorship. This is a well-known video seen countless times and it is linked to Yitzhak Rabin. What we don't want is this conspiracy theory rubbish about it. In any case it is quite obviously original research and thus against the rules. --Zero 13:51, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
    If it's a well-known film, then surely there should be a page about it? Am I missing something? We're perfectly capable of editing the article to remove "conspiracy theory rubbish" (although I don't know of any policy here that doesn't permit conspiracy theories to be aired, and we have a large number of pages that do that. So long as they are from sources outside Wikipedia, there is no "original research" involved -- although, of course, those who want this particular conspiracy theory suppressed will argue that the sources for it are not "reputable"... ho hum). Grace Note 03:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. It is clearly not "original research" and whether or not it is a conspiracy theory has nothing to do with whether or not it should be deleted. Should references to the Zapruder Film be deleted? Of course not. --208.181.101.125 16:25, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
    • How is this not original research? It doesn't cite a single source. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 17:03, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
      • It shouldn't be hard to find sources that this is the basis of a prevalent conspiracy theory. Just because the sources aren't yet cited, doesn't make it intrinsically original research. Revamp the article and cite sources. HKT talk 17:26, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. the article is about a historically significant real thing. Must be be cleaned up, though. mikka (t) 18:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep.I saw the video 9 times, it is scary, the descriprion is accurte. I called a friend in Israel and he confirmed that they never show the video on TV which is scary. Wiki may be headed for world news when this thing gets going. Stevie Good user talk:Stevie Good) 18:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. The Zapruder film is famous to this day, got sold for millions and does not show half as much as this the Kempler film shows. Zapruder was not a well knows name till years after the JFK assasination. I have a strange feeling that Kempler will be a famous name worldwide and would not be surprised that there are people working to supress this film --Brooklyn Guy 4:11, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. The film is an objective piece of evidence in a murder case with many unsolved questions. Letting the public analyze this piece of evidence can contribute to understanding what really happened. I can see no harm in keeping this. Yoav Cohen 23:13, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Note: This contribution is from anon IP User:84.162.242.86 not User: Yoav Cohen as signed. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 22:32, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep absolutely! This is already an important part of modern Jewish history, like it or not. Why are people afraid to face the prospect that Rabin's demise was far more complicated than meets the naked eye? IZAK 10:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Assaination videos should be covered, I think. The Zapruder flim is a infamous film, and the Kempler video could be the next one. We shouldn't just becasue of a small section of conspiracy theory crap. It's a flim god damn it. Should we delete Star Wars Kid next? How about Numa Numa? Why don't we delete Zapruder flim also, it could be biased because it mentions consipiracy theories. We just need to improve, not delete! --Saint-Paddy 18:38, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

Sadly to say that Kempler video is the seven and a half video minute of the Rabin murder and my explanation of the historical importance of the video is accurate. Once you see the video and read the explanation you will see that we are talking about something very important historically. Leave the thing up because it is historically very important. For the Rabin murder it is more important to figure out what really happened than the JFK murder film was what happened to JFK. Imagine taking down the JFK murder film with similar arguments. The difference is that most Israelis only remember the film from 9 years ago and the video has not been seen since. Really wierd. Results 1 - 10 of about 7,960 for kempler video is the google hits, which is alot for a video that has not bad been seen in over nine years. But of course, we are cutting to the chase of the Rabin murder and there are people who cannot let this happen. (unsigned by User:Kempler Video).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.