Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keith Malley (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wizardman 15:45, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Keith Malley

Keith Malley (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This article was previously deleted as non-notable (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keith Malley). It's now reappeared and makes various dubious claims of notability. Examples:

• "He was crowned the 2004 grand prize winner at the prestigious World Comedy Laugh Off in New York City." — "World Comedy Laugh Off" gets only 15 Ghits; it can't be that prestigious.
• "His 2004 and 2005 stand-up albums, Coming of Age and Children's Party Songs, are all currently in high rotation on XM Satellite Radio." — I can't find these albums on Amazon.com. Do they even exist?
• "He is also the author of The Great American Novel" — Can't find this on Amazon.com either.
• "He starred in the movie movie, Crushed which will be released soon." — No such movie listed in the IMDb.

The only remaining claim to fame is the podcast "Keith and the Girl", and I'm not in a position to judge its notability. Even if it is notable, does that mean that Keith Malley is? —Psychonaut 18:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, no valid assertions of notability beyond the podcast. NawlinWiki 19:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as nominator. —Psychonaut 19:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable person Corpx 19:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per above. --Nonstopdrivel 20:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bren ^talk 06:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup stub article. Just added references. Keith Malley has been featured on national radio show the David Lawrence Show, and papers such as BusinessWeek, WSJ, and New York Observer, thus making him notable. Original AfD nom was in October 2005, only a few months after his podcast was launched, though this time around he does have sufficient coverage in the media. Albums are not sold though Amazon but are available through his podcast's website [1], and used to run through CD Baby previously. Great American Novel and Crushed have been removed per WP:CRYSTAL, but I believe he now does meet WP:BIO. --Bren ^talk 05:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 05:35, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 05:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 09:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. If the podcast Keith and The Girl is notable (based on its downloads/audience), then Keith Malley is notable, since he is the podcast! (Although I agree that not everyone can be notable by association.) If in 6-12 months this podcast dies out, maybe the articles should be removed then. -- MightyWarrior 09:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
  • If Keith is the podcast, then this article should be merged into Keith and the Girl. —Psychonaut 09:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - per above. I also note that the article was relisted as "needing further consensus" with four deletes, no keeps, and the nomination itself... the relisting admin added his "keep" vote and then relisted as "needing consensus"... that is pretty bad form. COI, anyone? /Blaxthos 11:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Debate was raised due to notability and verification issues of the article. I have relisted today as since the initial 4 delete votes were cast, article has been worked on to address these issues. The relist tag was put in to differentiate the former and the newer votes. If this is not the correct way to handle such a case, please feel free to remove the relist tag, or alter to a correct one. --Bren ^talk 12:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I would note that consensus appears to have been reached before you decided to imply that it was not (and use as a justification to relist). I also note that, at this time, consensus appears to have become even more clear (4-0 before, 6-2 now). Of course, this isn't a simple excercise in vote counting, but the consensus remains (at the time of this writing). I would note that the AFD was listed, and the opinions were issued, based solely on notability, not verifiability. Despite your claims, you can't "work on" notability -- it's either there or it's not (which was always the issue). /Blaxthos 13:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok I apologise for relisting if that was not the correct procedure. What I am trying to explain is that Keith Malley is notable as he has been the subject of multiple secondary sources, and citing helps establish that. The 4 initial votes were cast without this information, the folling were. Since the AfD nom included "makes various dubious claims of notability" then verification of claimed facts is required. I also don't see the point of the nom argument "was previously deleted as non-notable" as between October 2005 and now there are sources to establish his notability per WP:BIO --Bren ^talk 14:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Not trying to be obstinate here, but the article had included dubious claims about nonexistant projects to try and assert notability (the movie, the novel, etc.), and there has been some underhanded mischaracterizations within the AFD discussion as well. Without throwing out WP:AGF completely, I think that there has been a considerable effort at giving the appearance of notability (not the same thing as actually being notable). /Blaxthos 15:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Addendum - Of the sources you've pasted, the WSJ source doesn't even mention the subject of this article at all. The BusinessWeek source only talks about the Keith and the Girl video, and mentions Keith Malley en passent. More dubious claims... the sketch may be notable, but the harder I look the more I see smoke & mirrors. /Blaxthos 15:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to the Keith and the Girl podcast article, until his other work has seen notability. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. ...but with thanks to the nominator for flagging this. The article's original over-the-top promotional quality is separate from the issue of whether or not the subject is notable enough for Wikipedia. The podcast, the mention in a Wall Street Journal shortlist of top podcasters, and the comedy prize seem to add up to enough notability that you can imagine somebody looking for info in Wikipedia. Without the comedy prize, I'd agree to just merging this into the podcast's article. bTW, I came here expecting to want to see the article deleted, after some anon claiming to be a pro-Malley partisan was trying to stir up trouble in the talk on Adam Curry.betsythedevine 11:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.