Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KPDF-CA
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep. —Quarl (talk) 2006-12-27 02:13Z
[edit] KPDF-CA
A low powered station, not notable. Lacks independent sourced information wp:v#Burden_of_evidence. If it contains no sources, the information is Original Research. What encyclopedic value does it contribute? Alan.ca 06:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Much of the information in the article can be verified through the link to the Federal Communications Commission. --Eastmain 07:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent source, please include it in the article. I wonder if you could find an independent source supporting notability. Alan.ca 07:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- It's already in the article. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Article already contains a link to the FCC database entry on KPDF-CA here, which verifies most of the information in this article. The history section appears encyclopedic in tone and contains information someone who was looking up info on the station might find useful. I don't find any evidence of advertising, blatant or otherwise. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- What information would we find useful in this article that is not in the fcc link? Alan.ca 07:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Comment If someone could please answer how this article meets WP:CORP#Criteria for companies and corporations I may be able to withdraw the nomination. Alan.ca 07:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
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- A Spanish-language Class-A TV station which, as it states in the article, is seen both over the air and on cable systems, and which serves the 5th-largest city in the U.S., which is 34% Hispanic, seems notable to me. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. I will be adding references to the article. Low-power stations are not automatically non-notable. This is especially true for Class A stations, which have met more stringent criteria in order to have primary station rights during the DTV conversion. dhett 07:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't mean to imply that a low powered station cannot be notable, but given that they have limited broadcast range, it would seem more likely. When you refer to citations to come, are you intending to meet the WP:CORP guideline? Alan.ca 07:17, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- In Phoenix, a Class A station with a 40-mi signal radius, reaches nearly the same number of households as a full-service, full-power station with an 80-mi signal radius. And yes, I do intend to meet the WP:CORP guideline, although I question its relevance to a television station. Since reports by public agencies are part of the criteria for notability, each FCC application and notice concerning the station contributes to that station's notability. dhett 07:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- By that definition every publically traded company would be eligible as well as they are all registered with the SEC. Alan.ca 08:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Contributes to notability, not creates it. I still debate how applicable WP:CORP is to television stations, and for that matter, to all print and broadcast media outlets. They generally do not provide in-depth coverage of their competitors. You may find many passing references, but the only time a media outlet gets attention from other media is when one does something extraordinary, such as changing affiliations, or something controversial. For example, you'd be hard pressed to find anything significant written about CIII-TV — it's a full-power station (actually, network of stations) but unless they're writing about themselves, or Global Television Network is writing about them, or the CRTC has business with them, you don't hear much about them. On the other hand, because of Jan Pachul's antics with the CRTC, you might find several independent articles about Star Ray TV. Which is the more notable station? I submit it's CIII-TV. dhett 09:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting thoughts there. You may want to start a discussion on one of the policy or guideline talk pages. According to policy wp:v, no third party sources, no article, how else do we verify the statements? If it's just a simple reprint of FCC info, why do we need an article? Alan.ca 09:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've been putting together secondary sources to complete the Class A stations in the western US, but there have been several stations for which I can find nothing else but the FCC info. I will not author those articles for just that reason. However, television stations often get third-party mention as part of a larger article. See, for example, World staying tuned to Mexican telenovelas, an article which makes mention of KPDF in a couple of paragraphs, but the article is not about the station itself. The same is true for Spanish-language TV outlets boost power, viewers, which devotes the last few paragraphs to KPDF and Azteca America. You'll not likely find more than this kind of reference. The question is: is it enough coverage to satisfy the "non-triviality" part of the notability guideline? I contend that it is, due to the reasons I stated in my previous response. However, I would judge the one-sentence reference to KPDF in MediaWeek Market Profile: Phoenix as trivial, and would not cite it. Note — I am adding the first two references to the KPDF-CA article, as external links now, but will refine the article later. dhett 10:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting thoughts there. You may want to start a discussion on one of the policy or guideline talk pages. According to policy wp:v, no third party sources, no article, how else do we verify the statements? If it's just a simple reprint of FCC info, why do we need an article? Alan.ca 09:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Contributes to notability, not creates it. I still debate how applicable WP:CORP is to television stations, and for that matter, to all print and broadcast media outlets. They generally do not provide in-depth coverage of their competitors. You may find many passing references, but the only time a media outlet gets attention from other media is when one does something extraordinary, such as changing affiliations, or something controversial. For example, you'd be hard pressed to find anything significant written about CIII-TV — it's a full-power station (actually, network of stations) but unless they're writing about themselves, or Global Television Network is writing about them, or the CRTC has business with them, you don't hear much about them. On the other hand, because of Jan Pachul's antics with the CRTC, you might find several independent articles about Star Ray TV. Which is the more notable station? I submit it's CIII-TV. dhett 09:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- By that definition every publically traded company would be eligible as well as they are all registered with the SEC. Alan.ca 08:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- In Phoenix, a Class A station with a 40-mi signal radius, reaches nearly the same number of households as a full-service, full-power station with an 80-mi signal radius. And yes, I do intend to meet the WP:CORP guideline, although I question its relevance to a television station. Since reports by public agencies are part of the criteria for notability, each FCC application and notice concerning the station contributes to that station's notability. dhett 07:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep, per User:dhett DHowell 10:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Please be aware than an AfD is not a vote, but a debate. Stating per user or per nom serves the process no benefit. See Wp:afd#How to discuss an AfD.2FWikietiquette for clarification. Alan.ca 11:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep, television stations are notable by default. --CFIF ☎ ⋐ 19:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Strong keep. We established the same consensus at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KUNP-LP and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KTFL. «TTV»(talk|contribs|email) 20:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Class A television stations tend to be considered notable, especially those serving the sixth largest city in the United States.-- danntm T C 04:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
- Keep, low-powered non-pirate radio stations are by their very nature notable. Maddy626 09:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Only significant independent coverage appears to be in the FCC license, which is routine and does not show notability. Apparently the current revision of WP:N disagrees with me on the point that routine reports never show notability, but WP:N does exclude trivial coverage, and I would call the FCC license trivial because it's nothing we can use to write an encyclopedia article. Dhett (who is to be commended for finding the sources that he did) raises the interesting suggestion that (at least some) media outlets should be considered "platonically" notable even without significant independent coverage. But I think we should be practical -- we need significant independent coverage to fill up a reliably verified encyclopedia article. Pan Dan 15:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for the kind words. I intend to raise this issue at WT:N, but I want to put together a cogent opening statement first. I do find it ironic, however, that none of the external references for Platonic idealism provide any coverage of that philosophy, let alone signficant coverage. :-) dhett 17:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
- Are you saying official records are "trivial"? They're VERY reliable, especially for companies that go by the book, like KPDF's owners. They give the technical information: FCC data never will list affiliations unless it's an O&O, and still so indirectly. Websites will mention programming, not technical aspects like FCC records do. We need both in a Wikipedia television station article. Right now, I'm going at WXSP-CA: I want to get at least one WP:TVS article to GA before the end of January, and for GA, we need references. There are secondary-source-relying projects and primary-source-relying projects. We happen to be the latter, because there are no reliable secondary sources on most stations, but reliable primary sources exist. Same with WP:PCP: secondary sources do not exist, as anything close to one just repeats the information in the game, and most of the description and other parts are from the games themselves. Thank you. «TTV»(talk|contribs|email) 02:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Strong keep: As indicated by similar "keep" comments above, all TV stations should be represented, no matter how large or notable. -- azumanga 01:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
