Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Juan Manuel Abras (second nomination)

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Juan Manuel Abras

Non-notable composer/conductor. This page has been nominated for deletion once before and the result was DELETE (after someone attempted to use sockpuppets to vote in favor of Keep). That was in 2005 -- why is this article still here? Grover cleveland 16:46, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The talk page for this article is also full of sockpuppets. Grover cleveland 16:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete as recreation of deleted content. Protect from recreation. The JPS 17:15, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Unless the writer or other Wikipedians can provide proof of importance. Almost Famous 17:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. Grafikm_fr 18:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Probable vanity page and lots of sock-puppetry but he seems adequately notable in an under-represented field - see e.g. [1] or [2]

Delete just too much sock-puppetry Dlyons493 Talk 23:46, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Those pages tell us he's a postgrad student. He's taken lots of universty courses (surprise). He's studied with some notable professors, but that doesn't make him notable. He's directed some ensembles that are anonymous (in the English link) or that no-one has heard of (second link). He is a member of a composers' assocation (no evidence that any notability is required to become a member). He's founded lots of groups (big deal). As a composer, has his music been performed by musicians who are themselves notable? Has it been published by a major music publishing company? As a conductor, has he conducted a notable orchestra or ensemble? Are any recordings of his conducting or compositions available commercially? Grover cleveland 05:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

All comments by Grover cleveland are erroneous and false. Abras is not a postgraduate student anymore (besides, you can achieve notability even while being a student). Not everybody is accepted -as Abras was- to take university courses at the prestigious institutions he attended (where legends like Karajan, Abbado, and Mehta, for instance, studied too: University of Music and Performing Arts Vienna, Austria, just for naming one). The ensembles Abras conducted (I checked them one by one) are not anonymous at all; they are simply not listed in this article. The Argentine Composers Association -Abras is a member of that institution- was founded in 1915 as "National Society of Music" and is one of the oldest and most prestigious composers associations of Latin America (of course, not everybody is accepted for becoming a member). Some of Abras scroes and CDs are, indeed available commercially (this was checked too). Abras was designated conductor of two of first-class Argentine Orchestras (this was verified too). Conclusion: all comments by Grover cleveland may be product of the evil, non authoritative, jealous and envious mind of, maybe, a frustrated musician that possibly doesn't even know how to read a music score. Music Master

• Delete and protect from recreation.--blue520 07:43, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and protect from deletion. Comments like those from Grover cleveland should be avoided for being non professional, erroneous, non authoritative and offensive. Music Master

Previous comment was from a Sockpuppet? Grover cleveland 19:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Coment I am the author of the previous comment and, as the administrators can see, there is no such a thing. Paranoic and misleading behaviours like the ones exhibited by Grover cleveland, product of possible envious attemps of discrimination by frustrated people, should not be permitted within the frame of Wikipedia and will be properly denouneced. Music Master

Music Master first edit in Wikipedia was 20 April 2006 [3]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 01:15, 21 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Notability within the frame of specialized european media is more than proved. I spent hours checking the info and sources. It's more than worthy of keeping. Monitory

Monitory first edit on Wikipedia 20 April 2006 [4]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 01:15, 21 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep per above and protect from deletion. If not, we should delete many other articles I found in this article's categories: he is as notable -or even more notable- than a bunch of other young composers found at Wikipedia. Bororomir Wins.

Bororomir Wins first edit on Wikipedia was 20 April 2006 [5]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 01:15, 21 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as NN and protect from recreation. Membership in organizations and admission to programs/educational institutions, prestigious though they may be, does not necessarily confer notability. For all the hyperbole above I see no mention of which orchestras he led (WP:Cite). The extensive sock puppetry above and on the article's talk page indicate that this article will be quickly recreated if not protected. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 00:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

AbsolutDan you must pay more attention to what you write: the membership detail was an answer to an envious comment by Grover cleveland. Notability is well proved by authoritative and specialized sources. Pay more attention before writing and do not talk about you don't know, like in this case. Thanks. Music Master

Where? Please cite and I'll be happy to take a look --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 01:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

If you don't know how to search the web, you can find some useful tutorials here: http://yahooligans.yahoo.com I hope you find them useful. Regards, Music Master

• Keep for showed proof of importance, notability and the useful information contained in the article. Please, protect from deletion to avoid further discriminating and confusing comments Sandonar

Sandonar first edit on Wikipedia was 21 April 2006 [6]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 15:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep per Dlyons493 Not only that: I found also many other links that make this article worthy of keeping. However, you must know a bit of Classical Music in order to appreciate them (and also Spanish and German). Karate Kid

Karate Kid first edit on Wikipedia was 21 April 2006 [7]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 15:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep per above. Please add some jpg or gif files to the entry. Many thanks.--Koril 13:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Koril first edit on Wikipedia was 21 April 2006 [8]. Probably a Sockpuppet. Grover cleveland 15:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC) False statement by Grover cleveland. A real Sockpuppet must not be confused with a newcomer Wikipedian comment, like in this case. --Music Master 21:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Dear Wikipedia authorities: Yesterday I have been told that Juan Manuel Abras, a notable young Latin American composer, internationally aclaimed by the Argentine and European media, has become the victim of an evil, envious and unjustified attempt of discrimination by a Wikipedia user named Grover cleveland, who posted false and erroneuos information about the subject in order to support his wicked action, while attempting to confuse fresh comments written by new users with sockpuppets. Having created this account, named Perelli, I checked the truth of this statement and I energically demand from Wikipedia administrators to protect the mentioned article from deletion and not to avoid further activities by Grover cleveland or other users that show similar behaviours, activities that are not only totalitarian and against the claimed Wikipedia conventions and policies but also violate the many human rights defined in international law and covenants. This activity will be properly denounced and prosecuted if serious actions are not taken. --Perelli 20:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Perelli: please see Wikipedia:No legal threats for the best course of action to take in handling disputes. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 21:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC) AbsolutDan: even if your help is more than appreciated, you must know that Wikipedia cannot be above international legislation nor be against the defense of the world established Human Rights. Also, do not attempt to deny the universal right to take a legal action. Please avoid future interventions without a proper knowledge of Law. --Music Master 22:05, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

We don't allow legal threats here. Any more and you and your army of socks will be blocked. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC) I would appreciate if you could avoid personal attacks against me. Please, avoid any kind of threats against me or other users. Otherwise, you will be denounced too. --Music Master 22:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Music Master, you have made many personal attacks. You have broken the laws regarding libel. Go read WP:NPA immediately. What the hell are you talking about human rights and international law? No one has the RIGHT to an article here. Also, this isn't a vote. 1 edit newcomers and anon editors don't get a sway here. Their comments are taken with very little weight. Stop making socks, OR stop defending them. If your not involved you have no idea if they are a sock or not. Oh yeah, threaten me legally. Call me evil. I dare you. You’re looking at a fast ban if you don't tone it down. ---J.Smith 22:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC) Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC) I would appreciate if you could avoid personal attacks against me. Please, avoid any kind of threat against me or any other user. Please, avoid offensive language. Otherwise, you will be denounced too, despite your age or any other inimputability circumstance that may arise. --Music Master 22:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Perelli: you may want to visit: http://www.amnestyusa.org and http://www.unhchr.ch --Music Master 22:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Non-notable. And annoying. --BillC 22:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per BillC. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Absoultly nn. And vanity. and socks. and recreation of deleted content. ---J.Smith 22:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Theresa knott Your stated nn. is false. Your vanity is false. Your socks is false. I would appreciate if you could avoid personal attacks against me. Otherwise, you will be denounced too. --Music Master 22:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Accusing you of runnig socks is not a personal attack. Since you have chosen to mention lawyers again I've blocked you for disrption. I will be blocking each and everyone of your socks also. Enough already. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 23:27, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Since many users may be discussing by the use of abusive, offensive and not objective parameters, I encourage them to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Policies%2C_conventions_and_guidelines. Some recent behaviours are against the essence of Wikipedia and may lead readers to links like:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Lack_of_facts_no_hindrance_to_speculation_about_Google,_Wikipedia http://www.openwyre.com/2006/03/_wikipedia_the_.html http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2005/12/20/wikipedia_vs_britannica_apples_vs_oranges

Therefore, I encourage them not to act by following subjective "favors", but to act according to Wikipedia policies and international conventions. --Music Master 23:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I've speedied this one. Continuing this "debate" is simply daft. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 23:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)