Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Burton

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jonathan Burton

Jonathan Burton (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log))

Delete I do not believe the article passes the requirements of WP:BIO and WP:NOT#NEWS. The minimal notability is strictly connected to the unusual aspects of the subject’s death. Ecoleetage (talk) 10:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Time called this "one of the most bizarre episodes of in-flight violence in U.S. commercial-aviation history." (September 24, 2000) Pepso2 (talk) 11:42, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

That is Time Magazine's opinion, not a statement of verifiable fact. And as someone who works in the aviation industry, I respectfully disagree.Ecoleetage (talk) 02:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

And that is your opinion, which we're not allowed to voice per WP:NPOV (at least in terms of deciding on an article's viability). The fact this is Time's opinion is irrelevant as every published source expresses an opinion, and our job is to report these opinions; we just cannot report our own. That's what Third-Party sourcing is all about. And this ain't a blog we're talking about. This is Time Magazine. I'm not expressing an opinion on the article's AFD as yet. 23skidoo (talk) 23:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Response Repeating a journalist's opinion does not make the article notable. And if you read what I stated, I did not offer my opinion as the be-all/end-all. I simply stated that Time made a statement that, for professional reasons, I could not second. I nominated the article because it fell short of WP:BIO and WP:NOT#NEWS, not because of the sensationalist news coverage that followed this single event. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, noteworthy for one event only. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. KleenupKrew (talk) 12:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• This is similar to Ken McElroy: after a group of vigilantes band together, someone is killed in modern day America, yet no one goes to trial. Pepso2 (talk) 14:24, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per Kleenup: all the Virginia Tech victims were covered by Time and other sources, but being noticed for having a side role in only one event, they were rightfully deleted. No reason that this guy is any different. Nyttend (talk) 20:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• The incident was so unusual that it was dramatized twice, as a play and as a TV episode. Pepso2 (talk) 21:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

ResponseUnusual, yes. Notable, no. Taking dramatic license with odd news stories does not equate with notability. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

• Salt Lake City police report. Pepso2 (talk) 00:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Article could use some cleanup, but article is adequately sourced for a stub. Needs categories. Time magazine's opinion isn't entirely unfounded (Ecoleetage's personal research aside). Is there another confirmed incident where a passenger was killed onboard an American domestic airliner by a mob? Except for BLP issues, which clearly don't apply here, this situation is very similar to Richard Reid (shoe bomber), which also refers to one incident, but is notable beyond question. Both these sad situations could have ended much worse, and then we'd be working on far more gruesome pagespace. The two dramatizations move this fellow's page past the bar for notability. BusterD (talk) 02:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
• More categories and links have been added. Pepso2 (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

*Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. —Hiding T 16:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Apologies, someone doesn't actually read the debates before sorting. Made a bit of a mess yet again. Hiding T 18:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. I'm not sure what the article looked like at time of nomination, but there are plenty of sources here now (besides Time) and this was a very notable incident -- I still remember the guy's name -- in pre-9/11 flight security. 23skidoo (talk) 23:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 23:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.