Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johnston Green

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, default to keep. Wizardman 21:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Johnston Green

Unsourced in-universe article about a fictional character.

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

Quick Robin to the Bat Cave (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment I think at least a couple of these might be able to be improved with some out of universe info, but I am unable at the moment to try to improve it. However absolute worst case scenerio, I'd say they should be merged back to List of Jericho Characters. (This does not mean I support merge over keep if improvement can be made, but I oppose a straight delete.)--Cube lurker (talk) 14:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Delete: I have no interest in references, as I do not believe they could do much, and I'm fairly sure that truly "outside" sources wouldn't exist. The point is that the article draws from fans, exists for fans, and reiterates what fans know. In other words, there is no testimony that this character has stood out from other characters on television, no indication that people are saying, "You know, you're being a real Skylar Stevens!" There is no indication that there is a "Which Jericho character would you be" game. There is no indication that this is operative outside of the fans. That's what one means by "fancruft." No context. Utgard Loki (talk) 16:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep, consider merges if desired. I have concerns about this deletion proposal, given that the nom has only seventeen edits in total - all but one of which are deletion-related. As well, in keeping with established practice, the articles should be considered for merging first with consulation from the Jericho article regulars. --Ckatz^chat_spy 20:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Merge all (but one. Keep Robert Hawkins (Jericho character))Keep. I was planning to merge all the minor characters today. As you can see in the Talk:List of Jericho characters, I have requested one merge in October 2007 and one in April 2008. I did both yesterday. Yes, I ve been waiting 5 months for the first case. There is no worry to make things really fast. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment I would like to ask Quick Robin to the Bat Cave to withdraw the prod for the minor characters in order to merge them in the main article. In the other cases, I would like to read more opinions in order to form my own in what we have to do. Maybe some characters are worth to have their own article. Maybe the two main characters. Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 21:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Delete. I'm with Utgard Loki on this one. Pure fancruft with no real world relevance. Also I do not have any concerns with the nomination. McWomble (talk) 02:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment Do you believe that we have to transfer some information in the List of characters article or not? If we do, in practice delete = merge and then we have to discuss which redirects we need or not. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment We must have some concerns for the nomination. The nominator didn't use Jericho's talk page, didn't warn contributors for the nominations, he is involved only in nominations (including Beth number). -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment I also have some concerns with the nominator. If you look at his contribs, he has only done two deletion proposals (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2007 Australian Equine influenza outbreak, and Beth number) and started one page. Aside from those edits and this AfD, he has done no other edits. The Equine influenza outbreak AfD was closed as a Keep under WP:SPA. This user does not have enough experience and also did not use the talk page at all. I'm not an admin but it seems that most people support either Keep or Merge. Either solution would be satisfactory to me.

Also, should we be considering WP:IAR (see also WP:IAR?)? WP:IAR? says that "The spirit of the rule trumps the letter of the rule. The common purpose of building a free encyclopedia trumps both. If this common purpose is better served by ignoring the letter of a particular rule, then that rule should perhaps be ignored." We are trying to build a comprehensive encyclopedia. Jericho is quite notable as a TV series, and therefore there should be information on its characters in Wikipedia. The information in these articles comes from the actual episodes -- third party sources aren't going to necessarily exist. This doesn't mean, however, that these articles (or at least the information in them) can't exist. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 07:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment Have to admit, I'm a little baffled at the delete votes when there's such a clear merge or redirect target??--Cube lurker (talk) 14:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment I had to be a little bold. I merged the remaining three minor characters in the List of characters (Sarah Mason (Jericho character), Skylar Stevens (Jericho character), Jimmy Taylor). I am pretty sure that there is a consensus about these characters. Afterall, it was something to be done before this nonination. Of course, if someone still believes that instead of converting the articles into redirects, please feel free to express it. I think we have to focus are discussion to the main characters. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 23:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment Robert Hawkings is the second most important character in the show. I suggest we keep this article and do a serious cleanup. All the others can merge. -- 23:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. Whether Robert Hawkins is the first or 50th most important character in the show is irrelevant. It's pure fancruft. It fails WP:V and WP:RS. And I do not have any concerns about the nomination. It's a perfrectly valid nom. McWomble (talk) 04:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Additional comment. Simply migrating the content to List of Jericho characters doesn't change the fact that it's still unreferenced fancruft. Admins should take this into account when making a decision at the conclusion of this AfD. I have serious WP:V, WP:RS and WP:OR concerns about List of Jericho characters too. McWomble (talk) 05:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment. Please check Category:Lists of television characters. The list of Jeirvoh characters follows the same criteria with all of these articles. I don't understand how it is Original Research, but he can do this discussion after we finish with the characters. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. Please check WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The above articles are nominated for deletion on their own merit (or lack thereof). They quite clearly fail WP:V and WP:RS. McWomble (talk) 12:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment This discussion is off-topic. If someone nonimates one of the 200+ articles, we discus it there. Friendly, Magioladitis (talk) 12:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Clarification. The articles in this AfD are nominated on their own lack of merit and the fact that other lists exist is irrelevant. The articles in this AfD quite clearly fail WP:FICTION, WP:V and WP:RS. McWomble (talk) 12:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment I started fixing article about "Hawkings" but adding material from interviews, copy editing, etc. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep at the very least Robert Hawkins (Jericho character). The others could either be kept or at least merged into List of Jericho characters. Do not delete any articles -- they can be merged if they don't deserve their own article. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 19:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. If Robert Hawkins (Jericho character) is to be ketp then it has to comply with WP:FICTION, WP:V and WP:RS. The new "Character conception" section is good - it is factual, referenced and has real world relevance. But the rest of the article is unreferenced and that content should be deleted unless reliable third party sources can be cited. Whether the others are kept or merged is irrelevant. The content of those pages is still unreferenced, in-universe fancruft with no assertion of notability and no real world relevance. Any unsourced material can and should be deleted. McWomble (talk) 08:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Delete. Non-notable character on a television show. Insufficient third-party references exist to write anything more than an in-universe plot summary. -- Mikeblas (talk) 18:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment -- are you saying that Johnston Green is non-notable to the TV show or that he is not notable outside of the series? If the former, that is quite wrong. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment First of all, this is a multiple nomination. Which of all is "non notable character on a tv show"? Secondly, I would like to inform you that I already merged all but "Robert Hawkins" to the List of the characters. If we decide to keep the characters, I'll just add a link to the "main article" of each characters. If we decide to delete/merge them everything will be ok. No valuable information will be lost. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I think in the above list we have to include:

Does anyone disagree with that? -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No objection from me. They are also pure fancraft and the only source is the network the produces the show. No assertion of notability and fails WP:RS. McWomble (talk) 11:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Object -- If you don't want these characters to have their own pages, then just merge them into List of Jericho characters. The articles have valuable information and if they are deleted, someone who wants to learn about the characters won't be able to. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 06:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. Migrating the content to List of Jericho characters does not solve the fact that it's purely unreferenced fancruft with no real world relevance. There is no evidence that the information is valuable or useful because there are no third party references supporting notability or verifiability. McWomble (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Delete all. Insufficient third-party references to write any kind of meaningful article. -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
'Merge the various characters. The usual compromise. why not do these things away from AfD. DGG (talk) 23:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. It's not a compromise if the content is still unreferenced fancruft. The content is not encyclopedic. McWomble (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johnston Green

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[edit] Johnston Green

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