Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Siegler 2

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 08:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joe Siegler (second nomination)

Joe Siegler was nominated for deletion on 2005-12-21. The result of the discussion was "nomination withdrawn". For the prior discussion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Siegler.

No assertions of notability in the current revision of the article; I looked at previous revisions and I still didn't see much notable. So he was a forum moderator of something or other ... not a big deal. Cyde Weys 02:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

On a side note, the article was blanked by me since it contained a lot of stuff that would not be suitable on Wikipedia, due to our policy on living folks (WP:LIVING). There also seems to be an edit war based on something that could have happened on Wikipedia. No vote from me. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm a little concerned why I'm back on Articles for Deletion. I already survived one of these, and I can say that everything that was in the article was real, since I'm the actual person that it was about, I can say it's real. As this happened right after vandalism on my page, it just feels like the whole of Wikipedia is dumping on me because of this. I don't understand this deletion decision at all, honestly. Dopefish 02:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
    • You didn't survive an AFD, it was withdrawn under very curious circumstances. This one will go the whole duration. --Cyde Weys 03:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
      • "Very curious circumstances?" That's that in regards to? Until right now I always thought I survived, I didn't realize it was withdrawn. Dopefish 04:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, isn't the nomination for deletion template used incorrect? There's a specific nomination tag for a second nomination; shouldn't that have been used instead of what is there now? Dopefish 03:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, no indication of meeting WP:BIO or anything of significance. Friday (talk) 02:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, Joe Siegler was an important part of the section of gaming history that is Apogee Software. He was a level designer on ROTT and has made a notable contribution to every game they've released since the start of his employment, simply due to the nature of his job. TerminX 03:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete it's a rare forum mod who's notable enough for an article, and just participating in the design of a notable game doesn't make you notable. Opabinia regalis 03:09, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: no reason not to mention him in the Apogee Software article, if its relevant. I don't see anything in the current content to warrant a seperate article. Friday (talk) 03:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, I have researched individual employees of 3D Realms in college papers dealing with the early history of the company and the shareware marketing model. That Mr. Siegler has become notable for things other than game design does not detract from his contributions to the history of the Duke Nukem franchise and the early first-person shooter Rise of the Triad. Adding complete biographies of all 3D Realms and Apogee employees to the company entries is beyond the scope of those articles. --Aesire 03:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Notable person in regards to Apogee/3DRealms, with enough public history to warrent a personal article. Article could perhaps be expanded, but I'm curious as to the specific reasons for a deletion request, considering the content does not meet general guidelines for an article requiring deletion. Mblackwell 03:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment, it also meets none of the guidelines for a biographical article (see WP:BIO). That is likely why it was nominated for deletion.--Isotope23 14:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Merge with Apogee Software Not notable to merit a separate article. OhNoitsJamie Talk 04:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete doesn't meet WP:BIO. -- Koffieyahoo 05:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. The points made by Aesire seem valid. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 05:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:BIO, lack of notability. - David Oberst 06:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'd like to consider myself an inclusionist, but this goes against WP:BIO and WP:LIVING. Maybe if the article is rewritten and referenced to show his role as a software entrepeneur, then it might be notable, but a forum mod is not notable per se, especially not a living one. Lovelac7 07:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete — doesn't assert his notability Martinp23 10:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, subject does not meet the WP:BIO guidelines for an article on a living person.--Isotope23 14:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - Just because someone works for a notable company or works on a popular product doesn't make them notable or meet any WP:BIO standards. Wickethewok 15:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete NN--Edtalk c E 16:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, per above. Or merge relevant info to Dopefish or Apogee Software, as long as he doesn't have his own article it's fine with me. Recury 16:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Delete The fact that he worked on ROTT does not make him notable. There were probably hundreds of other individuals who played some role in the development of Apogee's games. The article seems to me to be more of a resume than a biographical article on a notable individual. Being the moderator of forums for some websites does not make you notable enough for Wikipedia, nor does being one of several programmers for a major software title. will381796 16:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - Nothing personal, but Microsoft has made a huge impact on the software industry, and we don't and shouldn't have biographies for every one of their employees. Unless he can be shown to be notable apart from working for a notable company or working on notable games, there's no reason for him to be on here. GrahameS 18:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak Delete Microsoft didn't champion an entire business model like Apogee did. Unfortunately, policy is policy :( Danny Lilithborne 22:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. We can't have an article for everybody who works for something important. For example: I worked at my college, and it is very important. Should I get my friends to write me an article? Also, anybody who contributes to the deletion discussion for an article about them probably is not important enough to have an article about them in the first place. No offense. Lauren 23:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • As the consensus appears to be in favor of deleting this article, can we mark it for speedy deletion? will381796 02:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. I added "software entrepreneur" to the first paragraph of the article. Pehaps that will help. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 06:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. If this were an article about the founder of Apogee that would be different. But the webmaster? RFerreira 07:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nomination. Being the owner and webmaster of the official Dopefish fansite means very little in terms of notability WP:BIO. The Apogee stuff on the page indicates that Apogee thinks he's an honest and reliable enough person to be trusted with the gold master, again, nothing particularly notable here. Webmasters are a dime a dozen. I would not be happy to accept the "software entrepreneur" claim on faith per WP:V. Ohconfucius 08:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep per above. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - fails WP:BIO for lacking multiple non-trivial articles by third parties; notability is questioned since I get only 147 distinct Ghits for "joe siegler", consisting mainly of forum postings and a few press releases that quote him. I get only 55 distinct Ghits for "joseph michael siegler", mostly from IMDB. "software entrepreneur" is not automatic notability. Perhaps he could be turned into a high school? Tychocat 08:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.