Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Levin (Businessman)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. No point in redirecting from a dabbed title with a capitalization error. Nothing to merge since all of the relevant content has already been included in the proposed merge target by the original author (if you have a problem with having a mention of this person there, go edit it). - Bobet 13:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Joe Levin (Businessman)
The subject of this article does not meet the criteria in WP:BIO for notability. Of the four sources listed, 2 are not reliable sources, while a third mentions Levin only in passing. I do not have access to a copy of the 4th source, but I suspect that it also mentions him only in passing. Karanacs 01:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Strong Keepthis article is relevant to Jewish Texan history. Bhaktivinode 01:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)- Delete. Does not seem notable -- founded a synagogue in a small town. 01:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdedeo (talk • contribs)
- Delete, below WP:BIO standards. We've encountered articles from this editor before, haven't we? --Dhartung | Talk 01:47, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:BIO. Being one of the founders of a single religious congregation is not an inherent claim to notability. --Metropolitan90 04:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, not notable. Is "this article is relevant to Jewish Texan history" sort of a catch-all argument to keep? I've seen it three times on this page so far and I'm not to the bottom yet. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 04:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete It is utterly commonplace for people to found new churches and synagogues if they arrive in a new place and their needs aren't met. At least 15 of my ancestors founded churches or Quaker meetings. It's only slightly more notable than building a house or enlisting in the army. Studerby 11:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Ancestry doesn't confer notability, nor does anything else mentioned here. A search for "Joe Levin" reveals multiple instances of individuals with this name, some of whom have more claim to notability than this entry. Doesn't meet WP:BIO, WP:Notable. And, yeah, I have to agree, "important to Jewish Texan history" doesn't seem like a good reason for a dozen articles in Wikipedia about non-notable people. Isn't there a Judaism in Texas article that needs work? Accounting4Taste 14:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. —— Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 04:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep or Merge into History of the Brenham Jewish Community because this article is part of a group of articles relating to Jews and Judaism in Texas (the others being James Simon (Businessman), Henry Cohen Community House, Jimmy Kessler, Rosa Levin Toubin, Simon Theatre Simon family, Joe Levin (Businessman), Alex Simon, Sam H. Toubin) that have been nominated for deletion by User Karanacs (talk · contribs) (and another, Temple Freda nominated by another user) yet taken as a whole these articles are a valuable set of records about a topic in a state with relatively few Jews and with an even scantier record of notable Jews, Judaism and Jewish history in it. There is indeed a great need for an article about History of the Jews in Texas and these articles would all be good starting points and resources for it. This article, like the others in this group, cite adequate sources and meet the minimal requirements to be kept. The nominator is requested to reconsider her nominations of these articles. Thank you, IZAK 04:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- While some of these people might reasonably be mentioned collectively in an article about the History of the Jews in Texas, alone, they do not meet the notability criteria. By all means, create a larger article that merges all of this together in a History of the Brenham Jewish Community, but you must then cite reliable sources, and geocities (or other random websites) and self-published sources don't count as reliable. Karanacs 14:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Karanacs: So then the correct thing would have been for you to look for the Jewish Texans article and either asked for the articles to be put into it or asked for a "merge" but not a blanket deletion of all the information that have come with enough reliable sources to be kept. IZAK 19:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- If they had reliable sources, we wouldn't have an issue here. Personal websites and passing mentions in other articles don't qualify as reliable sources. Karanacs 19:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Karanacs: The correct thing would still have been for you to look for the Jewish Texans article and either asked for the articles to be put into History of the Brenham Jewish Community and History of the Galveston Jewish Community or asked for a "merge" but not a blanket deletion of all the information which you could have requested to be upgraded from the "personal websites and passing mentions in other articles" -- and the "passing mentions" may be quite significant. There should have been a better way to deal with this as it's a non-controversial topic and the articles could be consolidated and merged as mentioned above. IZAK 19:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- To a certain extent, IZAK, the onus is on you to do the kind of work you are assigning to Karanacs. One thing you can do is work on articles in your userspace, and port them to mainspace when they are ready. I suggest if you are keen to keep this information, you do that (moving information into the History articles) now before deletion. Remember that you have to rely only on reliable sources. Sdedeo (tips) 22:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Sdedo, while I do appreciate what you are saying, please understand that I am not the creator of these articles, they are outside the scope of my current work on Wikipedia. However as a neutral third party between the folks in Texas who are fighting this out, I am reluctant to come down hard on such articles, because in my years on Wikipedia I have seen many articles start out like these, even smaller as stubs, and then they can grow or be combined into larger articles, which happens all the time. So in my view, these are good "starter" articles, which could have been tagged as such or with requests for better citations and sources. Seems that the nominator was not considering WP:BITE and that User Bhaktivinode (talk · contribs), whose first edit was on 21 March 2007 [1] and who happens to know a lot about Texas' history and is willing to write it up for Wikipedia, should have been given more mentoring and time to get his/her act together instead of being hit over the head with multiple AfDs to "teach him/her a lesson". There is a lesson for all of us here, I hope. IZAK 06:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- To a certain extent, IZAK, the onus is on you to do the kind of work you are assigning to Karanacs. One thing you can do is work on articles in your userspace, and port them to mainspace when they are ready. I suggest if you are keen to keep this information, you do that (moving information into the History articles) now before deletion. Remember that you have to rely only on reliable sources. Sdedeo (tips) 22:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Karanacs: The correct thing would still have been for you to look for the Jewish Texans article and either asked for the articles to be put into History of the Brenham Jewish Community and History of the Galveston Jewish Community or asked for a "merge" but not a blanket deletion of all the information which you could have requested to be upgraded from the "personal websites and passing mentions in other articles" -- and the "passing mentions" may be quite significant. There should have been a better way to deal with this as it's a non-controversial topic and the articles could be consolidated and merged as mentioned above. IZAK 19:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Izak, I believe you need to assume good faith—it is utterly improper of you to assign such a motive to me. The editor in question has been through AFDs before (in June, I think; I was not involved) and should by now understand the notability criteria. (S)he was asked several times (not just by me) to provide more information about the notability of the article(s) in question and refused. I also made a good-faith effort to improve the article(s) on my own and was unable to find reliable sources or any assertion of notability. Only after having made both those efforts did I nominate the article(s) for deletion. Karanacs 14:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- If they had reliable sources, we wouldn't have an issue here. Personal websites and passing mentions in other articles don't qualify as reliable sources. Karanacs 19:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Karanacs: So then the correct thing would have been for you to look for the Jewish Texans article and either asked for the articles to be put into it or asked for a "merge" but not a blanket deletion of all the information that have come with enough reliable sources to be kept. IZAK 19:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- While some of these people might reasonably be mentioned collectively in an article about the History of the Jews in Texas, alone, they do not meet the notability criteria. By all means, create a larger article that merges all of this together in a History of the Brenham Jewish Community, but you must then cite reliable sources, and geocities (or other random websites) and self-published sources don't count as reliable. Karanacs 14:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete and merge any relevant info to History of the Brenham Jewish Community. --Eliyak T·C 11:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
- REQUEST: In order to reach a greater consensus about the related "Texas Jews articles" that have been nominated for deletion, please see and add your views at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#Nominations of Texas Jews articles for deletion. Thank you, IZAK 00:13, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- Merge into History of the Brenham Jewish Community. In the current state of the article, it looks like the sources are essentially primary, which would mean that Wikipedia would be the first place that a comprehensive biography on this individual would be published. Understanding and appreciating the effort involved in bringing this material together, the difficulty is that Wikipedia is intended only to republish material whose significance and accuracy has been previously vetted by other sources; a first biography would be prohibited by the no original research policy and biography guideline. I would suggest merging this material with an article on a broader topic such as History of the Brenham Jewish Community, since the policy for stand-alone biographies is stricter than the requirements for brief mention in a broader article. As a stand-alone article there currently isn't enough sourcing to meet policy requirements. If additional sourcing is found please let me know and I'd be happy to reconsider. Best, --Shirahadasha 00:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails WP:BIO. Doctorfluffy 22:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep or Merge into History of the Brenham Jewish Community. Bhaktivinode 01:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- Merge into History of the Brenham Jewish Community. --Brewcrewer 04:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
