Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Kleon

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was deleted speedily as CSD G11, blatant advertising. However, it is noted that most of the comments supporting a keep were from user accounts and IPs with almost no contribution histories. Moreover, many editors received email and talk page spam asking that they make keep comments here and User:Radioinfoguy, creator of this article, says he is Joe Kleon, the article's subject. I suggest that before any deletion review, a request to checkuser be made for the many single purpose accounts which commented on this project page. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Joe Kleon

Joe Kleon (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Largely self-promotional biographical article about a non-notable local DJ. InDeBiz1 Review me! | Talk to me! 23:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

• How do you know how notable he is? Are you from anywhere close to his state? The article has links to his radio broadcasts, from across the country. He also appears to have worked with many big name rock artists and produced a record by at least one. The article may need some cleanup, but I feel it belongs on Wikipedia. InDeBiz1 doesn't appear to have been an editor for very long and I feel he is making a mistake about this article. Englishliterature (talk) 00:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)— Englishliterature (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Not that it's particularly relevant, but I am rather familiar with the radio landscape of northeast Ohio, having been a part of it myself, at one point. --InDeBiz1 Review me! | Talk to me! 00:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, as you have contributed to the article in question, it's not exactly appropriate for you to weigh in on an AfD discussion... particularly when your main concern appears to be that I have not "been an editor for very long." As they say (reviewing your contributions, the first of which was less than one week ago), "Pot, meet kettle." --InDeBiz1 Review me! | Talk to me! 00:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Now you are judge, as to who can weigh in on an AfD discussion? I did not "contribute" to the article, I performed some cleanup and found some additional references to add. Try to get your facts straight, next time. As a commenter says below, I don't think it is appropriate for YOU to weigh in on this article, as you DO have a conflict of interest, claiming to be in radio.

Respectfully, my position in the industry actually makes me more than qualified to weigh in on AfD discussions related to it, as I am able to provide additional information that other "non-industry" editors may not know where to find. Also, any editing action to the article, regardless of what it is, constitutes contributing to the article. Regards, --InDeBiz1 (talk) 00:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Keep this article, Just for the record. Englishliterature (talk) 01:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Youngstown radio is not the same a Cleveland, Akron, or Canton. Most stations in Cleveland, Akron, and Canton cannot be heard in Youngtown. I am willing to try to make this article suitable for Wikipedia. I would think a 20 year career, bring heard virtually across the counry, at one time, or another, and work with many national artists would make one "notable." I hope the article can stay. Radioinfoguy (talk) 21:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC) — Radioinfoguy (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

User:Radioinfoguy, creator of this article, says he is Kleon. -- Hoary (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• • Respectfully, your point is irrelevant. Yes, I worked in Youngstown. However, I am very familiar with all of the northeast Ohio markets. Regardless, I stand by my nomination that this article is nothing more than COI-influenced self-promotion and has no business on Wikipedia. --InDeBiz1 (talk) 21:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete as not notable Duffbeerforme (talk) 04:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
• Joe Kleon has a long and varied career in music, radio, and other media outlets. I've followed his career for more than two decades - and he has proven himself as an on-air talent. I think the article should stay. bkh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.110.254 (talk) 10:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC) — 71.66.110.254 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep It seems indebiz is the one with a conflict of interest, in this matter, as he says he is in radio. Kleon is much more than just a DJ, as he has produced records by notable rock stars and worked as a photographer for many rock stars. Several of these CDs are distributed worldwide. Kleon's network radio broadcasts have been heard in the majority of U.S. states. His CNN radio broadcasts were heard in several countries. Why not help clean up the article, indebiz? Kleon's talk page says “This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography” Clevelandmusic24 (talk) 11:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC) — Clevelandmusic24 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep Seems notable to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.186.207.103 (talk) 20:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Kleon's main claim to fame (according to Kleon/Radioinfoguy) is that he is known for engineering, recording, co-producing, and mastering the 2003 CD Pete Way (Alive In Cleveland), by UFO (band) bass player Pete Way. I'd never heard of this, so I took a look, and read: Alive In Cleveland is a live release, from legendary UFO (band) bassist Pete Way. Recorded October 4, 2002, at The Revolution, in Parma, Ohio, "Alive In Cleveland" was mixed over two days at 609 Recording, in Bedford, Ohio and released shortly after, as an exclusive release on Pete's official website http://www.peteway.net. Majestic Rock Records, released it worldwide in 2003. Indeed, I hadn't even heard of Pete Way. The article on him is devoid of a single legend. (Or is he a legend, and the whole business thus a hoax?) Anyway, genuinely or legendarily, he made this CD. The article on it was written by Kleon/Radioinfoguy. It's released on Majestic Rock, which doesn't have an article and indeed is hardly mentioned in Wikipedia. It all seems very minor. -- Hoary (talk) 06:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • This comment was vandalized and then restored. -- Hoary (talk) 10:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Striking out of "Delete" (see below). -- Hoary (talk) 10:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep Pete Way put out his first album in 1968, with UFO and is sill going strong. They have toured the world many times and Pete's discography is very respectable. Bands like Def Leppard and Iron Maiden list Pete as a major influence. Kleon is known for a lot more than just working with Pete Way. His 20+ year radio career has earned him respect in the business and he was at the top of the ratings at Cleveland's WNCX, Savannah's WZAT and WIXV, and at Canton's WRQK. His work for radio networks has been heard in over 40 states. Just last week, the founding members of classic rock icons Molly Hatchet released a CD, under the name Gator Country, which was recorded by Kleon. His work in concert photography has found him working with many major label recording artists. just in the last year, recorded bands on Columbia records, Warner/Reprise records, Universal Records, and others. You call that minor? I say he is notable and the article should stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.67.231 (talk) 12:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. Clearly not notable, despite the spirited defense here. Is it time to open a sockpuppetry investigation? - Eureka Lott 13:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Well, the, ahem, UIDs and IPs without long editing histories who so remarkably find their way to this AfD do seem to format their messages both perversely and similarly. I reformatted a bunch earlier, but now we have the type-a-few-words-and-then-hit-Enter style, which takes a bit longer to reformat. I guess this will remain puppet-o-rama, at least until somebody remembers the name of the "Leave your meat 'n' socks at home!" template that can be slapped on the top. (Personally I'm in favor of meat 'n' socks: they have a certain comedy value.) -- Hoary (talk) 14:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep I vote to keep this article. Joe Kleon is a top notch radio personality, who has earned much respect in quite a few different areas of the music business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.208.187.186 (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC) — 24.208.187.186 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • This comment was later edited (here) by Special:Contributions/24.252.245.173. -- Hoary (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep This article has a lot of information and sources and the subject is notable. Keep it.
  • This comment was first written (here) by Special:Contributions/24.26.139.142, and edited (here) by Special:Contributions/24.252.245.173. (It occurs to me that the two IPs might not be unrelated.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete This user spammed me with a link to his article protesting its deletion. GreenReaper (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete (switching back because of this spam on my talk page). Aside from all the keep comments here being from blatant sock/meat puppets of sundry kinds, to work in broadcasting is not an inherently notable career. This person is not widely noted in articles/stories of which he is the topic by independent and reliable sources. I would speedy delete this straight off as blatant, personal conflict of interest advertising, but I'd rather watch this AfD play out into maybe a laundry run before doing that. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think this AfD has been disrupted and broken by too many comments from editors with limited contribution histories. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I was spammed as well, despite the fact that this isn't my area of knowledge or interests. (I haven't lived in Ohio in 22 years, and even then it was Columbus.) I cannot judge his notability or lack thereof from what is here, so I leave it to others to decide. But it's a red flag when email from a stranger accuses Wikipedia of "censorship" because of an AFD on an article about the person doing the emailing. Sorry. Decisions to keep or delete should be based on established criteria of notability, not personal involvement and canvassing. --Karen | Talk | contribs 23:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The user spammed me as well, and I replied telling him that while I disagreed with this deletion being termed "censorship," I would vote keep if I found the article to be notable. Unfortunately, after reviewing the arguments here, I have concluded that it is not, which is not helped by the only significant defense being from sockpuppets anyway. SeanMD80^{talk | contribs} 00:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Delete The justifications for his notability are weak and seem to establish his importance by virtue of association with slightly more notable people. In addition, article was made in bad faith as personal promotion, because most of the edits are from Joe Kleon (User:Radioinfoguy) himself. In addition, the images referenced at the end of the article are in a similar state and should be deleted as routine cleanup. User:Radioinfoguy seems to have written a vanity article on himself, employed sockpuppetry on its AfD, and spammed editors to save his article, for pete's sake. Such a "top-notch radio personality" has done a good job of making himself look pretty conceited and arrogant.

“

From: Radioinfoguy (joekleon@yahoo.com), An article on myself is being primed for deletion. If you could make a comment against the censorship and deletion of the article, on the deletion discussion page, it would be sincerely appreciated. The article is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Kleon Thanks for your consideration. Joe

”

Mazin07^C₪_T 00:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment Is it time to suggest closing this AfD as Delete, given that the only Keep votes appear to be coming from the same user? --InDeBiz1 (talk) 00:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
• WP:SNOW, yes. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't think so. We know that at least one (perhaps only one) person in favor of retaining the article claims to be keen to improve it and is sufficiently articulate and knowledgable to make a better article. (Whether this article would establish notability is another question.) I'd let this run its course, particularly as to do otherwise might well bring accusations of premature decision, unfairness, etc. -- Hoary (talk) 02:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. A mild notability, to be sure, but notable nonetheless. And the article is absurdly well referenced, considering what it is. Ford MF (talk) 02:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I was not fully aware of Wikipedia's policies, when the article was created. Someone wrote a shell of an article, which was submitted. I then began editing the article, along with several others, after it was vandalized several times. Many reliable sources were used for the article, such as The Canton Repository Newspaper (circulation over 60,000), two largely distributed Cleveland music publications, Scene Magazine (circulation 100,000), and The Free Times (circulation 70,000), www.blabbermouth.net (visited by more than a million people each month) and www.bwbk.com, as well as Def Leppard's UK website, Alice Cooper's audio archive, Informer Magazine, radio trade publication FMQB, answers.com, Artist Direct, and others. As of this point in time, I will recuse myself from editing this article. Early on, I asked several people for help editing the article, with no results. I know I will be continually slammed by the Wikipedia "elite," and I guess I have it coming, for not fully understanding the rules. I would sure love the help of a Wikipedia admin, to make this article suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. As to the claim that all the votes to keep the article came from one person, that is just not true. You have my sincere apologies and I respectfully hope the article, with help from those more knowledgeable then myself, can somehow be allowed to stay. Radioinfoguy (talk) 02:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The contribution history shows you created this article, your first edit did not come "after it was vandalized several times," but was the first. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The idea for the article was not from myself and the "stub" (I guess that is what you call the beginning of an article) of the article was not created by myself. It was given to me and submitted using the name radioinfoguy and since the article is about me, the user name was attributed to me, by someone I know. There are several computers, using a shared IP, in my home and in my studio. I added information and enlisted a few individuals to help edit the article, who also used the same radioinfoguy name, so that the beginning of the article was not just the opinion of one person, or just myself. Was I wrong for becoming involved with the article? From reading Wiki policies, I know now the answer is yes. I became involved, because I wanted accurate and well sourced information to be used. That is all. If you don't believe me and the article is deleted, so be it. I really don't have any reason to be dishonest, since the article is probably going to be deleted anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radioinfoguy (talk • contribs) 02:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Do you share the same Wikipedia account Radioinfoguy with other people? Gwen Gale (talk) 03:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It was shared with me, but yes, as explained above. Radioinfoguy (talk) 04:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: This AfD had an abrasive start and didn't get much better. I might have exacerbated the atmosphere with some details of my own delete vote. Since we haven't already done so, I suggest that we now stop wondering about which writer is who, and so forth, and instead concentrate on the article. Although I voted "delete" I already see some value in it and am willing to have my mind changed. Radioinfoguy is (or are) as welcome as anybody else to edit the article, which I do think is salvageable. (I'm not going to edit it myself because I'm busy with other stuff.) -- Hoary (talk) 04:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
• Delete —Preceding unsigned comment added by PametRiver (talk • contribs) 09:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Vandalism-only account, now given an indefinite block. -- Hoary (talk) 10:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
• The last vote was by the person (PametRiver) who has been adding vandalism to my page. Now, they have created an account and added valdalism to this AfD page. I received a warning saying the edit cannot be undone. Can someone please undo this vandalism edit? Thank you. This person was already placed on a temporary ban, by Hoary. -- Radioinfoguy (talk) 10:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • You're mostly right. Yes indeed, this person messed around with a comment here. He's now history. You're only wrong in the bit about undoing vandalism: anybody, certainly including yourself, is free to undo blatant vandalism. Meanwhile, thank you for bringing this to our attention. -- Hoary (talk) 10:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC) NB if there's any more vandalism of this AfD then I for one shan't have any qualms about protecting it. -- Hoary (talk) 10:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. Yes, I think the article as it is now can be kept, per Ford MF above. The article started in an unfortunate way; it's now a lot better. I don't approve of either puppetry or spamming, but for an AfD to be marred by either doesn't necessarily condemn the article. -- Hoary (talk) 10:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• Ah, it's got that smell of self-promotion about it. This could be significantly reduced by a proper copy-edit (and while you're at it, please read MOS). Although there's an impressive number of references, some of them could hardly be said to be authoritative, so please audit the ref section. This is by no means an article that WP can be proud of, although I'd stop short of deleting it right now. If deletion doesn't occur, it would be wise to keep this on our radar screens. TONY (talk) 12:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• This article is horrible. It is absolute garbage, complete and utter filth. It is putrid and vile. Having said that, for some strange reason I LOVE it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornhead (talk • contribs) 13:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC) — Hornhead (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep The subject's list of accomplishments, say "do not delete" to me. — 67.197.55.84 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep Kleon may not be Rush Limbaugh, but his work for two decades in radio, his work with many major-label artists, in different contexts,(photography, radio, recording) makes him notable in my book. Keep the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.123.224 (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC) — 72.193.123.224 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep If you delete Joe Kleon I may commit suicide. And you will have to live with that guilt always. Lemcup (talk) 13:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC) — Lemcup (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment I copied the following entry, from my talk page. I think the person meant for it to be here. If I am wrong, or it needs removed, please do so.

Radioinfoguy (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't care about how this page was created. I don't care if Joe wrote it himself. I simply want to learn about him, and this is the best way. Without the page, it is much more difficult to learn about this highly notable DJ. Leigh8959 (talk) 05:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Joe Kleon is a famous DJ. I find his biography and accomplishments to be quite fascinating. Please do not delete his page. If you do, you will diminish Wikipedia considerably. If you wish Wikipedia to be successful and respected, you must keep important articles such as Joe Kleon. PHDoctorate (talk) 14:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC) — PHDoctorate (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • And I note that you further state that Deleting it could have serious ramifications upon Wikipedia as a whole. Deleting Joe Kleon could destroy Wikipedia's reputation and integrity. Stunning! Would you perhaps care to explain here? (And just out of interest, do you have a PhD, and if so then in which field?) -- Hoary (talk) 23:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
• In an age of 'piped in', 'satellite', 'remotely/previously recorded' media, I think it's refreshing to find a person who is wholly dedicated to living/recording/producing locally! As an Ohio resident, specifically Akron/Cleveland area, I like the idea of Joe Kleon being on our side! I say keep the guy 'keeping on' and let him keep the article to broaden his horizon! There are mentions of 'self-promotion' and being 'arrogent'....to those comments: get over it and quit being jealous that you don't have the idea/gumption to do it yourselves! Way to go Joe! Good luck! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.60.53.159 (talk) 19:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC) — 70.60.53.159 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • The word "arrogant" (as it is conventionally, and was, spelled) does indeed appear above. But it's not used about Kleon's paid work, or even about his creation of an article about himself; it's about his campaign of spamming for retention of the article. -- Hoary (talk) 23:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• Delete and checkuser all around. Non-notable DJ. I wonder if he knows about this page and is asking people who listen to him to !vote here. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 23:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

You know, if I could, I'd CSD the article, per my original nom AND all the crap that has appeared on this page from people who have made no other edits to WP except for this page, as it's pretty obvious how they ended up here. I highly suggest a checkuser and would wholeheartedly support a block if the run showed what I'm fairly certain that it will. --InDeBiz1 (talk) 00:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.