Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jodi Thelen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep as a notable actress per WP:HEY. Bearian 16:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jodi Thelen

Jodi Thelen (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This article does not assert the importance of the subject and independent sources were not located. The subject appears non notable. prod contested i did not prod the areticle someone else did i am doing this for a friendOo7565 06:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete No evidence of notability. Simply holding a job, even a job like "actor", does not automatically make one notable. Her filmography seems a list of mostly bit parts. I can't see anything I would even call a supporting role in here. A google search turns up nothing more than a bunch of plain lists of her works, with not even a full sentance of a biography anywhere, nor a single review of any of her performances. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 07:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete This almost empty article shows no evidence of notability. --Stormbay 16:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete Checked on Google and in the article. No real biographic data available and references for her performance not yet available. Neozoon 23:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per above - violates WP:BLP, WP:RS, etc. Bearian'sBooties 01:21, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per others above. Doctorfluffy 22:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
• Very Weak Keep Her IMDB score is in the 30,000s, which shows that she is somewhat notable. When she did an episode of Dawson's Creek, her score was even in the 10,000s. But, in order for this to be kept, I think it needs to be rewritten, expanded, and cite more sources. TGreenburgPR 06:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

::Don't DeleteShe was the star of Arthur Penn's Four Friends, as well as of The Black Stallion Returns, both fairly notable films of the 1980s. She got a great deal of notice for the former film. I agree that the article needs beefing up with reliable data, but even though her career has diminished, she seems fairly notable for those early works. I'd be willing to do some work on the article. Monkeyzpop 10:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment There does not appear to be reliable independent sources to provide the beefing up that this article requires. --Stormbay 01:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Her first movie, Four Friends, was also called Georgia or Georgia's Friends in some countries, and she played Georgia; co-star Craig Wasson was nominated for a Golden Globe for his role. In her second movie, Twilight Time, she gets second billing after Karl Malden. She appears to have peaked early in her career, instead of starting off with bit parts, so some of the commenters above may have been looking for her "major" parts in the wrong place in her filmography. --Groggy Dice T | C 17:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Notable parts require reliable sources that discuss such parts in a non-trivial manner. Regardless of how many lines she has in a movie or how many minutes she is on screen, if NO ONE in reliable sources has ever commented on her work, she is non-notable. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 17:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Well, I've found comment on one of her roles. Her role as Sandy in the play "A Body of Water" is reviewed by the New York Times[1] and Variety[2]. I've also found that her role on Starting Now, a failed TV series vehicle for Ricki Lake, was as one of Ricki's roommates. --Groggy Dice T | C 17:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The 2 references above mention the subject as part of a plot outline which does show that she was in the production. Neither speaks to the performance except in passing. --Stormbay 18:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I will second that. These are both trivial mentions of the actress. They only note that she played the parts, but contain no review of her performance. The articles review the play itself, and no attention is given to the performances of the actress in question. All these sources do is confirm that she holds the job of actress, and again, simply having a job does not make one notable. Keep looking for sources though, if we can find SOME this may become keepable. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 21:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[Monkeyzpop has beat me to the punch, but...] First off, she wasn't just "in" the production, she was the lead-billed actress. Second, I disagree with your interpretations of the reviews. Reviews typically contain plot descriptions, and these go no further in being "plot outlines" than normal. But it's not true that they "contain no review of her performance." Variety says, "Kava has drawn two wonderful performances out of her leading women... Thelen makes a stunning transformation from Sandy to Malka..." The other review has less to say about the performances, but does briefly single Thelen out. Also, these reviews give detailed descriptions of her characters, particularly Sandy, which may be determined largely by the playwright and director, but also reflects what the actress brings to the role. In any event, it can be misleading to measure notability by how much a reviewer says about a particular actor's performance. The reviewer may be entranced by something besides the acting (the writing, the directing, the costuming, the cinematography, the editing, etc.), or may form a general opinion of the cast, and only feel it necessary to single out those who stand out as particularly better or worse. For instance, Time's review of Four Friends[3] has only one sentence about the cast's performance, and the two who are specifically mentioned are not the ones with the largest parts, but the two he thought were better than the rest. Also, as I'm going through Google News Archive (on which she has 200 hits[4]), I'm finding more plays. She played Nora (a supporting character but not a bit part) in the original Broadway production of Brighton Beach Memoirs, for instance. --Groggy Dice T | C 01:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Um, look down... --Jayron32|talk|contribs 01:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

KEEP: Examples of press which suggest WP-level notability: Syracuse Herald Journal, 2-12-82 (Review of Four Friends): "The showcase role of Georgia provides Jodi Thelen with a stunning screen debut as she runs the gamut of emotions. She is the constant thread that holds the four together...." Variety, 2-19-94 (Review of A Body of Water): "Thelen makes a stunning transformation from [the role of] Sandy to Malka, both willful women but in every other aspect--including looks--totally different." TV Guide (Review of Four Friends): "Outstanding performances from the underrated [Craig] Wasson, Thelen, and [Miklos] Simon." Newhouse News Service (in Syracuse Post-Standard), 2-12-84 (Richard Freedman review of Four Friends): "Director Arthur Penn has led his largely unknown cast to heights of acting eloquence that many old pros might envy.... Jodi Thelen is so believable as the archetypal prima donna date of the '50s who never quite grows up, that she runs the risk of being almost as tiresome as Georgia herself." Variety, 7-5-2000 (Review of The Square): "The women outshine the men...and Thelen [provides] a special comic flair." New York Times, 2-12-94 (Ben Brantley review of A Body of Water): "Ms. Thelen, as the rabbi's wife, provides a performance of welcome comic bite." New York Times, 8-2-85 (Mel Gussow review of Springtime for Henry): "As the secretary, Jodi Thelen widens her eyes (and never blinks) and affects a little girl lisp. The style, of course, has been patented by Carol Channing, but Miss Thelen manages to add a twist or two." These are samples of more substantial coverage of the actress's career and work, certainly not the trivial mentions commented on above. A worthwhile, if not outstanding, subject for WP, I believe. Monkeyzpop 01:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep Sources have been provided, so I have struck through my prior vote. Many of these appear to be print sources, but there is NO preference given to print OR to online sources, and these are ALL to reliable sources. Well done, Monkeyzpop. Please add these sources to the article. I would recommend added a section to the article named "Critical reception" and providing these reviews, with appropriate inline citations to the various references you have provided. However, those are indeed multiple and non-trivial references, and all are reliable sources. I have been convinced, this actress is notable. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 01:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.