Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim Chapman (footballer)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep as it meets guidelines given the new references and moving consensus.
[edit] Jim Chapman (footballer)
Procedural nom. Article was nominated twice for speedy deletion, both times being rejected. The second nomination, which I declined, was that the article didn't assert the importance of the subject. Subject perhaps isn't notable, being a football manager in the Scottish Third Division, but I felt it asserted enough importance not to be speedied. Still, probably doesn't meet WP:BIO. However, this is a procedural nomination, and I really don't have any opinion. faithless (speak) 03:59, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete, is third division even a professional league in Scotland? Either way, I suggest we treat him like any business manager; and you would be hard pressed to argue that Dumbarton F.C. the business (as opposed to the football team) is a notable entity. Lankiveil (talk) 04:33, 1 January 2008 (UTC).
- Speedy Delete: It's semi-pro, and certainly falls short of WP:BIO. Beyond that, I agree that this article fails to assert the notability of the subject. RGTraynor 09:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:BIO as he hasn't played in a fully professional league. пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Weak keep but only on a historical basis. Alex Ferguson started off merely as a Third Division manager (or its then equivalent), albeit having had a career as a footballer. But if a manager at this level doesn't been WP:BIO then I'd be convinced to change that. Peanut4 (talk) 21:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I've been looking for information on him, and learned that before his coaching days he was a player, and played at least as high as the Scottish Second Division. In this interview he talks about scoring the goal that won the second division championship. I don't know much at all about Scottish football, but assuming that they follow the promotion/relegation format that most leagues around the world follow, then his team would have been promoted the following season. If he remained with the club and played in the Scottish Premier League, he would pass WP:N. He might even be notable just for playing in the second division - certainly a player who plays in the the Football League Championship is notable. Hopefully someone more familiar with Scottish football can chime in here. faithless (speak) 07:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- For reference, the Scottish Second Division is the third tier of Scottish football, and winning it would gain a team promotion to the First Division, not the Premier League. According to this page he left Albion in 1990 to go to Dumbarton, so he may have played some games in Division One, which is the second tier, but I'm not 100% sure if it's fully professional..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment the league structure changed sometime around the 1980s so not sure if promotion from the Second Division would earn a place in the top flight of a similar division to the current First Division. Peanut4 (talk) 10:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- The Second Division has been the third tier and promoted into the First Division (second tier) since 1975 ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment the league structure changed sometime around the 1980s so not sure if promotion from the Second Division would earn a place in the top flight of a similar division to the current First Division. Peanut4 (talk) 10:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- For reference, the Scottish Second Division is the third tier of Scottish football, and winning it would gain a team promotion to the First Division, not the Premier League. According to this page he left Albion in 1990 to go to Dumbarton, so he may have played some games in Division One, which is the second tier, but I'm not 100% sure if it's fully professional..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- Weak keep given new references. Jfire (talk) 07:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Thanks to ChrisTheDude for the info. My personal feeling is that in borderline cases like this, we ought to keep. I added a couple of refs to the article, and there are certainly tons more out there. And hey, the BBC covered his recent hiring like it was a big deal, which leads me to believe he's notable for us. faithless (speak) 13:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I've been trying to update some local football pages from the area (Dumbarton FC & Vale of Leven FC) and just done a couple of player pages (Tom Carson & Joe Carson) if you want to leave it up just now I'll look into what I can find & try & make it worthy of being kept, it does look like someone made a page for every manager & current squad of Dumbarton FC most of which are nowhere near being notable enough GoTeamGaz (speak) 20:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- One Last Comment Though I am responsible for this RfA, my personal preference would be to keep this article, and similar articles of borderline notability. True, he might not quite cut it as far as our guidelines go, but here is an athlete/coach who has received a very good amount of coverage by major news sources, including the BBC. When most of us change jobs, it isn't covered by the largest media organization in the world. How much more notable can you get!? :) I propose that this is a good time to invoke WP:IAR, as I feel that all things considered, this article benefits Wikipedia, rather than hindering it. faithless (speak) 07:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
