Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jew Year's Eve

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETED. Nonsense, troll-bait. Jayjg ^(talk) 17:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Jew Year's Eve

Article claims to a world wide event gaining steam but the only source of this statement is in hebrew. No other sources beyond this and a possible hoax. Lid 09:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• Weak delete, which will be stronger pending the translation of the Hebrew by someone familiar with that language. BigHaz Schreit mich an 09:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Delete - per BigHaz, it doesn't appear to be a complete hoax at least - somebody was selling tickets for an event on New's Years Eve last year [1] , but there doesn't seem to be any other supporting evidence. Yomangani^talk 15:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

  Delete - Nobody seems to be able to provide evidence it is anything other than a random title for a party. We wouldn't keep Joe's 40th Birthday Party which probably gets more use. Yomangani^talk 11:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Very few Google hits, most of which appear to refer to something other than what the article describes. The link to the Hebrew web site goes to the front page of Ynet instead of to a specific article. --Metropolitan90 16:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak delete - per BigHaz & Yomangani. It can come back in 2 years if it bcomes truly notable. Williamborg (Bill) 21:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This event, (or at least the event of Jew Years eve) is real, and i have gone to many Jew Years Eve parties in different parts of the world over the last five years or so. I'm not sure about the USA, but it has become pretty big in Israel and other parts of the Jewish Diaspora over the last few years. Why would someone want to delete this (ok, i can see why an anti-Semite would want to delete it, but apart from that)? I say at least give it to the end of september, and then see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.7.248.137 (talk • contribs)
  • Comment. According to the article, the Jew Year's Eve parties would be held on Sept. 21 this year. Therefore, we ought to be able to find web pages announcing these upcoming events, if they are truly an international phenomenon. But so far I'm finding very few. Don't equate support for the official policy of verification with antisemitism. --Metropolitan90 01:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong and Speedy KEEP. I dont think he or she was equating deletion with anti-Semitism. Metropolitan simply read it that way - not sure if this was Freudian or not. Metropolitan has a history of campaigning for the deletion of Jewish pages. The unsigned was merely stating that it would be obvious why an anti-Semite would wish to delete this article. This person couldn't think of another reason - but they didn't rule another reason out either. Personally, i don't think it requires anti-Semitism to delete this article. It merely requires someone to have no life, and thus nothing better to do with their time than go around and deleting other people's articles. Take up a hobby - I suggest Judo. p.s. The actual Perth event is currently being advertised weekly in the print edition of The Maccabean (website: http://www.maccabean.asn.au/) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Kasparov of Sheshbesh (talk • contribs) User:The Kasparov of Sheshbesh is the creator of the article under discussion.
• Strong KEEP. This is a real event and occurs every year. Most readers of this site are probably not Jewish and therefore are unaware of the community activities held by the Jewish community world wide. Just as Christmas and Easter are ingrained in the consciousness of Christians world wide, so too are Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashana, and Jew Years Eve in the Jewish conscious. Please please keep this reference.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.27.5.28 (talk • contribs)
• Strong KEEP. I am Israeli academic. I traveled to Australia in 2001 for research summit. As a Jew in a country far from my own, I was so pleased to hear about this party. I am young, so I went. I was very happy to hear that they have a party like this every year. I met many people who I still write with and I know that there is a big party soon in Perth (wich is in western Australia). Please keep, keep to be true, keep to be real. Toda. Associate Professor Y. T., University of Haifa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.101.120 (talk • contribs) — 203.59.101.120 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Comment - would any of the people advocating this article be kept like to add some references and/or confirm that the existing link has some relevance to the article? I think most of the weak deletes would be quite happy to change to keep if some reliable third party sources were quoted (I would at least). Yomangani^talk 12:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - Yomangani, you raise a fair point. I think Kasparov pasted a link to the front page of the website of the israeli newspaper ידיעות אחרונות . I assume on the day Kasparov did this, there was a frontpage story. However, that link only takes one to the front page of the particular day that the user clicks on the link, and thus i don't know specifically what article was referred to. Maybe it was this http://www.ynet.co.il/yaan/0,7340,L-20716-MjA3MTZfNDY1MjI2ODZfMTQ4Njg3MjAw-FreeYaan,00.html. For more stuf: Here is a link to an Israeli magazine called הלול that has loads of stuff about this http://www.ha-lool.co.il/magazine/article.asp?id=357. Another link relevant to this is http://www.tam.co.il/26_12_97/tar1.html (the top line could be effectively translated as "why is this night special/different?" Shalom to all, SHanah Tovah, and have great Jew Year's Eve, wherever you spend it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.7.248.137 (talk • contribs)
• Comment - I don't see how these links support the article in question. The first is about the jewish holiday of Rosh ha-Shana but as far as I can see says nothing about secular events the night before Rosh ha-Shana eve. The third is about "night culture" of Tel-Aviv without any connection to the JYE or Rosh ha-Shana (one phrase that seems to suggest that Rosh ha-Shana events become more popular). The second is a list of articles about Rosh ha-Shana again... perhaps some articles do contain something relevant, perhaps they don't, a quick check didn't help. Bukvoed 09:38, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep The Jew years eve party is the cornerstone of young Jewish community social participation around the world. I met my first wife at a Jew years eve party in Vladivostok. I think it is great that the Perth Jewish Community is taking the Jew years eve party to the next level and it will hopefully place Perth on the international map. Support this page, support Jew years eve parties around the world. You could meet your life long partner there too!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.98.17 (talk • contribs) — 203.161.98.17 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Delete - non-notable private social event. At most, try to merge it with Rosh Hashana and see the reactions. In comparision, would an article about what Jews do on Halloween or Xmas eve be documented on WP with it's own article? Maybe in twenty years if this event is still around. I'd remove the 2006 controversy part out of simple WP:Recentism, but leaving it in makes the article even more amateur and petty. --Shuki 06:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. -- Shuki 06:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - Shuki, XMAS etc has nothing to do with yehudim, but JYE is exclusively for yehudim, so your analogy doesn't work. Furthermore, JYE is not simply a private social event - it is also a communal event in many parts of the world (although admittedly it doesnt appear to be popular in USA). Merging with rosh hashonah is also problematic since that is a religiously based occasion and JYE is essentially secular/cultursl. Thanks for being involved though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.7.248.129 (talk • contribs)
• Delete because what on Earth does this have to do with Judaism or Jews for that matter? Should we thus create an article about Jews partying habits? If so let's have articles about those oxymoronic Yom Kippur Balls when atheist Socialist Jews partied on the holiest Jewish holiday or Jews and Christmas parties since so many secular Jews attend Christmas parties at work and in their private lives. IZAK 09:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - IZAK (and perhaps Shuki) objects to the article because it is a secular/cultural event rather than a religious event, and thus doesn't fit into his narrow vision of what a Jewish life should involve. This is absolutely no grounds for deletion. JYE serves as a means for Jews to get together and celebrate. THis is irrelevant to the debate, but as it happens, many zeyer frumisher menchen attend JYE parties, including some young rabbonim, especially those from Chabad. It is a great form of Jewish outreach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.7.248.137 (talk • contribs)
  • To the above anonymous anon: Firstly, why not get a Wikipedia account and then log in and use the four tildes ~~~~ to sign your comments with a name which will give you and your views credibility on Wikipedia. Secondly, your accusation is false, I have no arguments against "secular/cultural" events. If you think that this article will pass muster with the editors at the non-religious Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish culture then run it by them and see what they say, I have absolutely no objections. Also feel free to add it to Category:Jewish society that can hold all sorts of subjects not related to definitive forms of Judaism. At this time, this article infringes on WP:NN because it merely deals with the purported partying habits of some people who may or may not be Jewish. Your defense that "zeyer frumisher menchen attend JYE parties" is like saying that "zeyer frumisher menchen enjoy prostitutes" which is known to be true but would not be fitting for an encyclopedia article - at least not yet... IZAK 10:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Wait, Delete unless additional evidence provided. In its current state, the article describes nothing more than a single party in Perth, Australia. It's essentially unsourced. It does nothing to demonstrate the party's notability. Some other editors have indicated "Jew Years Eve" represents a world-wide social phenomenon that has been going on for some time, rather than a the name of a single event that's being promoted for a single time and place. If this is so, suggest redefining the article's scope, and sourcing the larger scope. My vote could very well change if this is done and the larger scope turns out to be verifiable. --Shirahadasha 11:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I'm Jewish, and while the party itself is an interesting phenomenon and may indeed take place, IMO, it's utterly non-notable and unencyclopedic. -- pm_shef 16:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete this has nothing to do with Rosh Hashanan, or any jewish religious expression and therefore lacks any of the regualar sources for jewish holidays (2000 years of jewish law - mishnah, talmud, numerous commmentaries). It is a tiny group of people who have unusal parting habbits. A single party in Perth - even if it happens every year - is not notable. Jon513 16:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Week delete. --Shaul avrom 18:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - The reasons for deleting this seem unsatisfactory. Firstly, there seems to be the IZAK school of though that likens attending JYE with the use of prostitutes. (BTW IZAK, none of my frumishe chaverim do this , but your personal life is your business). If they had bothered to use their brains before typing, they would notice that JYE takes place on the evening before Erev Rosh hashonah, and thus purposely does NOT violate the sanctity of yomtov/shabbat. Regardless, this is an irrelevant argument as was pointed out by someone earlier. Then there are those who are not jewish who want to delete this article for reasons i have no idea, although Kasparov has provided some suggestions as to why - they need to get a life.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.231.161 (talk • contribs) — 58.7.231.161 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Comment. The main reason to delete this article is that it has problems being verified, and all content must be verified under official Wikipedia policy. The idea of "Jew Year's Eve" is supposed to have originated in Perth, Australia, and the name is based on English-language wordplay, yet all the online sources cited have been in Hebrew, not English -- and according to User:Bukvoed, the Hebrew-language sources don't even support the article. I did find sources that describe a "Jew Year's Eve" event scheduled in Minneapolis this year [2] but Minneapolis is the only place for which I have found verification. Since "Jew Year's Eve" is supposed to be celebrated in many cities around the world, a single event is not enough to support the article. The event cited by Yomangani above [3] took place on December 31, not just before Rosh Hashanah (which would always be in September or early October). Similarly, this link describes a "Jew Year's Eve" concert which took place on December 31, again not supporting the article under discussion. I realize that several of the editors here are very supportive of "Jew Year's Eve", but unless we can establish by reliable sources that it is a commonly acknowledged event, we should leave it out of the encyclopedia for now. --Metropolitan90 05:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
    • By the way, has everyone noticed how many unsigned and anonymous "votes" are being cast here. They should be checked out and probably voided as they may be nothing more than annoying anonymous sock puppets. Furthermore the above anonymous responder is twisting my words and is obviously not directing himself to the issue at hand: Exactly what is the notability of the "Jewish" partying in this article? Let's say some folks decide to have a sweet sixteen party for Jewish girls and call it Sweet Jewteen party does that make it automatically notable and worthy of an encyclopedia article. Finally, I cited valid possibilities for articles about known sociological phenomena, and the fact that no-one has seen fit to create articles about them should put a damper upon and justify the exclusion of this article from Wikipedia until such time as it becomes a more solid and acceptable feature of normative Jewish life anywhere. IZAK 10:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep I just wanted to add that i think the article should definitely be kept BUT it should recategorised. As it is, it is currently under a judaism stub. It is more a jewish cultural event, rather than judaism. Could someone please recategorise it appropriately? JYE is a great event. I remember i was in Japan a few years ago and the Jewish community in Kansai held a JYE (also called Yudaya no Oomisoka in Japan) party. It was great, and it meant that the next night (erev rosh hashonah), most of the travellers and transients etc had already met many people the night before at the Yudaya no Oomisoka (JYE) party. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faito (talk • contribs)
• Strong Keep. Shalom Chaverim. We have a few JYE parties in Melbourne (where i live), but if the musical lineup for the Perth communal JYE party is anything like what has been advertised in the Jewish press, then I think myself and some friends are going to make the trip over to Perth. Lehitraot, Art.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.178.63.3 (talk • contribs)
• So I put up a template that says we aren't counting votes, so that's irrelevant. So, besides the original editor, all registered users, except one have, voted delete. ALL other keeps have been made by anonymous editors who never signed their edits. Things that make you go hmmmmm --Shuki 20:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keepin mind אָבער, מערקווירדיק, ווי גרויס איז דער אונטערשייד פון זיי ביז אונז. די פעלקער פון דער וועלט האָבן אויך זייער ראש השנה, זייער ניי יאָר. אבער זיי גיסן נישט קיין טרערן. מיר וועלן נישט הערן פון זיי קיין קרעכץ, נישט קיין זיפץ. פאַרקערט, מען פרייט זיך, מען הוליעט; פאַרוואָס זאָל מען זיך נישט פרייען? עס איז דאָך אַ ניי-יאָר. און מען באַגעגנט דעם ניי יאָר נישט מיט טרערן; מען שיקט נישט קיין קרעכצן און זיפצן צו מקבל פּנים זיין דעם נייעם יאָר. פאַרקערט, מען באַגעגנט אים מיט מוזיק, מיט טענץ, מען טרינקט, מען פּויקט און מען פייפט, די שמחה איז גרויס. אַ קלייניקייט? דער ניי-יאָר איז געקומען.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.141.41 (talk • contribs)

• Keep - Firstly, please do not delete existing posts. I replaced the above persons post (looks like yiddish to me) after someone else (not mentioning any names) illegally deleted it (disgusting behaviour). Shuki is right, it is not a vote, it is about the merits of the arguments. And since it is about merits, then it doesnt matter whether people who are arguing against deletion have a history of editing or not etc. The merits for deletion are weak. The Jews who are arguing for deletion are doing so because they don't like the idea of any jewish institutuions that are not purely religious. Not liking a particular event is not a reason to delete it. I don't like Wagner concerts, but that doesn't mean they ought to be banished from the public record. Furthermore, Under such grounds that JYE should be deleted because it doesn't have a religious grounding, one would also delete yom ha'atzmaut, which would be absurd. Then there are those nonjews who want to delete it because they haven't heard of it before. Well of course you haven't - it is an institution that only jewish people participate in (unlike a 16yrold birthday party IZAK, which is not a jewish institution, but a western one). My own personal experience of JYE is that the (communal) events and the people who put in the effort to organise them are all about k'lal yisrael. Now if IZAK and Shuki etc, if you are against k'lal yisrael, then just keep arguing for delete. Otherwise, look into your hearts and change your 'vote.' Shabbat Shalom. Peace and Goodwill to all men, Yehuda ben-Yisrael.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.153.151 (talk • contribs) — 58.7.153.151 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment - I would just like to point out the reason why I and probably some of the others who are supporting JYE are anonymous. The simple reason is that IZAK has a history of getting users who disagree with him banned. Most people don't want to risk having their regular user a/c banned from editing wiki.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.153.151 (talk • contribs) — 58.7.153.151 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • To the above anon: What pathetic nonsense. Firstly, I came along this discussion long after a number of anonymous editors had their say, so your argument is pointless. Secondly, where the heck have I ever gotten users who disagree with me banned? Show me where this happened please, go ahead, Wikipedia is an open book. You know, this just shows that people can come up with anything if there is no-one with an institutional memory around to refute them. By this I mean that I have been around on Wikipedia since 2002, and during that time I have had debates with other editors. In some instances they were clearly anti-Semitic, but at no time did I cause them to be banned, on the contrary they tried to get me banned. But over time those contentious editors got themselves into trouble with other editors because I have never gotten any users who disagree with me banned. Thus, thirdly, I expect to receive an apology for this blatantly false accusation against me, but I suppose that may be too much to ask from someone who hides behind both anonymous IDs and deceitful arguments. IZAK 17:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Yehuda ben-Yisrael (58.7.153.151), (can you please make the distinction between me questioning your accusations and God forbid not you personally) your accusations, as well as the reasoning that people are scared of IZAK, as well most of the keep arguments here are false, pathetic and un-wikipedian. The keep side has yet to prove the wikipedian merits of this undocumented new social party. Your Israel Independance day example is perfect. While Yom Ha'atzmaut has an article, you will not find any 'salute to Israel', 'march to Jerusalem', or other events in which thousands of people particiapte in WP unless they are added to the relevant holiday/significant day. Yehuda ben-Yisrael, this has nothing to do with k'lal yisrael and proving the legitimacy of this event. The point of this discussion is that 'JYE' is simply not ready yet(?) for a legitimate wikipedia article. I sincerely suggest trying to add it to the bottom of the Rosh Hashana article titled 'non-religious events', or current events'. --Shuki 07:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• FWIW, even if someone wants to stay anonymous and post a comment, then signing with four tildes is still expected and required. This also adds context to the discussion: The majority of keep proposers either do not know how wikipedia works and what is relevant and legitimate to it, and/or are merely being disrespectful of this institution. --Shuki 07:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• FWIW, ok Shuki, i take note of your suggestion to add JYE to Rosh Hashanah, but i think it is kind of disrepectful to Rosh Hashanah for it to share its page with JYE. Clearly RH is far more universal and sacred event than JYE, and i dont think anyone would argue otherwise. Also, sorry if u felt lumped in with IZAK. As was mentioned by someone earlier, his analogy of JYE to people who hold a ball on kol nidre is absurd (As JYE does not occur on yomtov but at least a day before it), but i note that you personally did NOT make such an analogy. BTW, IZAK does have a history of having people banned, but your point about adding the ~~ is a fair one. I accept that you may feel the arguments for keeping JYE are "un-wikipedian" although (for example) wikipedia seems to me to have articles about the most minute and irrelevant comic book and TV characters, so i really don't know what objects are worthy of inclusion in wikipedia. Personally, if information is accurate (and this case i think it is, although the univerality of JYE may possibly have been exaggerated, in which case that can be edited, rather than the whole article deleted), i see no problem with including it. What is relevant to one person is often irrelevant to another and vice versa. In conclusion, i still see no harm in keeping the JYE page, and the page may directly or indirectly encourage some Jews in the diaspora to become more involved in the community - Kiruv. Shabbat Shalom to you shuki, Yehuda ben-Yisrael. 220.235.152.196 08:50, 8 September 2006 (UTC) — 220.235.152.196 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Stop your lies against me please (see my above comments). IZAK 17:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Comment The fundamental problem here is the lack of verifiable sources for the article, not whether it is a Judaism related article or a Jewish social event or anything else. It could be called "whoopsy-daisy spree day" or "jumping holiday" providing there were reliable third party sources for it - the inclusion of the word "Jew" in the title is irrelevant here. So far there has been no evidence that it is anything other than a pun that is randomly applied to certain parties involving Jews or around the times of Jewish festivals, and even that is mostly anecdotal. The one attempt to provide references resulted in sources that don't apparently feature this term. Merging it to another Judaism related article is not a solution - without evidence it exists it is as invalid in another article as it is standing alone. Without reliable sources it violates WP:V and has no place here. Yomangani^talk 11:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• KeepI heard this reference at a Christmas party after Mass last year and wondered ever since what it was all about. We need to keep the article in order to answer that question. It "is" something so let us define what it "is" in encyclopoedic terms. Incidentally, the article as it stands is approaching mere drivel, not even up to middle-scholl standards. So...keep it but re-write it correctly. It needs to have some context around it; for instance, I think it needs to have an etymology section and perhaps a cultural impact section. DocEss 17:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I'm pretty aware culturally of Jewish stuff and I've never heard of this before. Together with the almost complete lack of google hits it is very hard to see how this meets WP:N or WP:V. JoshuaZ 17:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Weak delete. It looks to me like notability has not been established. The citation from YNet is in Hebrew, I can't read it; since it is so short, it might be useful for someone to provide a translation here; if it demonstrates notability I would change my vote. Citing Heeb magazine without citing any particular article is essentially no citation at all. If this is deleted, it should be without prejudice to future re-creation if notability can be shown. - 17:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: I find the ad hominem remarks about IZAK disgusting. I'm a secular Jew, I disagree with IZAK as often as I agree with him on Jewish-related topics, he has, to my memory, on only a couple of occasions (none of them recent) been anything less than courteous to me (and I believe he would say approximately the same in return). At my request, he keeps me notified about AFD debates on Jewish topics because I don't usually watch AFD; he does this despite the fact that I probably often as not vote opposite to him. - Jmabel | Talk 17:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.