Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jansen Van Vuuren

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to 1977 South African Grand Prix, primarily since it's pretty well-merged already.--Wizardman 04:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jansen Van Vuuren

Jansen Van Vuuren (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Very sad person to come accross, but this person I don't think is that notable. Would he be famous if he never died in this horrendous accident? No. Also, I can't see the marshall that died at 2000 Italian Grand Prix (Paolo Ghislimberti) and the other that died at 2001 Australian Grand Prix (Graham Beveridge) get their own article. So just what is different about this person. Nothing. Unless the other two articles are created, then this is a very simple delete in my mind. Davnel03 16:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Oppose - Flawed logic IMO. Would Michael Schumacher be famous if he hadn't become 7times World Champion? Would Tony Blair be famous if he never became an MP? Would anyone be famous if the event that made them famous/notable not occured. No. The two other marshalls you bring up were hit by debris of race cars, and not seen on TV. They are usually mentioned in passing in the race reports. Van Vurren on the other hand is the only man (AFAIK) to have been hit by a Formula One car, and which was shown on television. In addition many sources are available on his background and the event itself in great detail. I'd say he was notable. Alexj2002 17:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Merge Having read the arguments presented below, I think Merge would be the most sensible option. However I'd like to respond to the low Google search hits point, by asking people to bear in mind that events that happen pre-1990's are less likely to have online news coverage than those which happen today. See WP:GHITS Alexj2002 23:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment - Welll ... the article asserts that this kid is all over the Internet, and you asserted above that many sources are available on his background. Of course uncritical use of G-hits has pitfalls, but the burden of proof of verification remains, and so far verification's lacking on both counts. RGTraynor 05:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment - Filippo Raciti was a policeman recently killed in the Italy football riots. That weren't seen live on TV. His killing weren't shown. Nor was the two marshalls. Raciti gets a article, the marshalls don't. Oh, by the way, Blair, Schumacher have articles because the did something amazing (7 time champ; PM}, while Van Vuuren was someone caught up in an unfortunate incident. Davnel03 17:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Delete or Merge per nom. The "flawed logic" argument is completely specious. Tony Blair did things that made him world-famous. Michel Schumacher did things that made him world-famous. Van Vuuren was an otherwise-unremarkable teenager whose sole and tenuous claim to notoriety is that he was killed in an auto race thirty years ago. For all the (alleged) millions who've supposedly seen the clip of his death, a directed Google search turns up only 77 unique hits [1], the first several and many of the others of which are this Wikipedia article and its mirrors. Anyone think that the YouTubers downloading any such clip have any idea who the kid was other than "Holy s***, that guy got creamed"? RGTraynor 20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to 1977 South African Grand Prix. He does not satisfy WP:BIO and I'm not even sure the accident is that well known outside of racing circles. The article is padded out with original research, and there is more about the accident than the man himself. Wikipedia is not a memorial. Readro 18:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Merge sounds about right to me. Most of the article isn't about Van Vuuren at all. In fact all we learn is that he was 19, from SA, and died by being hit by an F1 car. Most of the article can go into the race report, and the whole "similar accidents" section can probably be modifed into a "fatal accidents" or "safety" section in the history article. Pyrope 19:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Merge to 1977 South African Grand Prix, or perhaps a general "History of Marshalling in Formula One" article would be suitable.--Diniz 19:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge as above. This fits fine as being a part of the race coverage. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge as above. Anyhoo, half of the article is dedicated to "Similar accidents". Maybe details of non-driver fatalities could be listed here: List of Formula One fatal accidents. MonkeyMumford 12:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.