Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete, the alternatives, Merge to List of Guantánamo Bay detainees besides his date of brith all the same information is already there. Keep while the detainees are notable, articles should only be created where there is sufficient information beyond the what can be presented in the list. Gnangarra 13:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani

Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Having been a prisoner at Gitmo is strong grounds for notability, but, presumably because of the veil of secrecy, nothing is known about the person who is the subject of this article, other than (a) he is a name on a list of former Gitmo prisoners; (b) the list says he was born in 1979 in Mecca. Should articles really exist about people when nothing is known, or perhaps knowable, about them? Tempshill 16:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete NN for own seperate article, especially seeing as who most of this article is background not even about him. Could be put in a list. --Shuki 17:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak keep I think the articles should all exist, because progressively more will become known, since given the name, date of birth, and place of birth, they will be recognized. Even now, has anyone searched Arabic-language sources? Even in English, there are "transcripts and statements from the CSRB" which might provide further information even if partially censored. The article did not correctly transcribe the date of birth, which is "2/10/1978" . DGG 22:44, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep — Geo Swan 17:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Disclaimer, I started this article, and most of the other articles about Guantanamo captives.
    • I have his release date somewhere in my notes. I can't find them right now.
    • Arabic names are often transliterated in many different ways. Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani's name is very close to that of two highly notable captives.
      • Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani, the individual whose article is nominated for deletion, is spelled very similarly to Jabran Said Wazar Al Qahtani, one of the ten detainees who faced charges before the Guantanamo military commissions. I confused them myself, at first. Given how loose name matching has to be for people with Arabic names this would, normally, qualify as a perfect name match.
      • Jabir Hasan Muhamed Al Qahtani, the individual whose article is nominated for deletion, is one of four captives who is named some variation of Muhamed Al Qahtani.
      • Muhammad Mani Ahmded Al Shal Lan Al Qahtani, usually known simply as Mohammed Al Qahtani, was the Guantanamo captive who was identified as one of the "20th hijackers". He is the one the DoD actually acknowledges torturing for two months. Another wikipedia contributor mistook Jabir Muhammed Al Qahtani for the 20th hijacker.
    • IMO, the best way to prevent confusion over Jabir's identity, so he isn't mistakenly conflated with the other guys is for him to have an article of his own.
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Guantanamo Bay detainment camp-related deletions. -- Geo Swan 22:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to an appropriate combined list of detainees. I know that creating such a list will take time and effort, but continue to believe that it is the right action for any of the detainees for whom no sources independent of the standard prisoner lists and CSRT hearing records hae been found. GRBerry 00:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Greetings,
    • You have made this suggestion before. I didn't take a crack at it when you made your first suggestions last fall. I wanted to make sure none of the articles were what my earlier critics called stubs. But, when I finished, I spent almost all my spare time during late December, January and February adapting one of the files in my rough notes as an experiment to try your suggestion. I think I have told you this a couple of times now. I think I told you have how large and unmanageable this file grew -- about 420 kilobytes at this point. I didn't spell this out before, but that experiment consumed well over one hundred hours.
    • I left a note on Talk:List of Guantanamo Bay detainees where I asked people for their opinion about a rewrite of that article. That was five weeks ago, only one reply so far.
    • As I have said before, I continue to have concerns over the workability of a union list I continue to have concerns that it could prove to be too large to be useful because of how long it would take to load, and too large for an interested party to find what they want, once it loads.
    • If you are aware of an answer to the technical problems I anticipate, let me then ask you if you have the time and energy to lay them out? I think Talk:List of Guantanamo Bay detainees would be the appropriate place for that discussion.
    • Cheers! Geo Swan 20:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, AKRadecki 22:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - no media coverage at all, therefore does not meet notability AKRadecki 22:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - Agree with akradecki. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 19:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - Strictly speaking, this is not a relisting but a continuation of an unclosed discussion started on 21 May that appears not to have been formally closed. To whoever may close this, I think another couple of days is appropriate. No opinion on the article at present, just heading off to read it properly. --Cactus.man ✍ 19:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete This individual is not notable. How can he be if nothing is known about him? Nick mallory 15:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge into List of Guantánamo Bay detainees until such time as we have enough information to write a proper article on the individual. --Kralizec! (talk) 18:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment - He's already listed as "Al Qahtani, Jaber Hasan". AKRadecki 20:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep After having given this much additional thought, I remain of the opinion that all of these individuals are notable because of the nature, scale and likely historical significance of the political event that they are embroiled in. Little is known about them for the very obvious reason that information is actively witheld and suppressed by the detaining authority. The norms of the various guidelines such as WP:NOTE, WP:BIO etc. are rather difficult to employ in these circumstances. I also find Geo Swan's argument above against merging to the list convincing. Therefore, keep. (Please note, any response to this opinion will likely be unanswered as I am running an ancient gas-powered PC temporarily (main PC has fried motherboard - boo)). --Cactus.man ✍ 08:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.