Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Horseshoe Theory

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete - crz crztalk 17:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horseshoe Theory

Horseshoe Theory (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This is, simply put, not an encyclopedia article. It is an essay, and not a very well-written or well-referenced one, at that. Nowhere in the article can I find any notable source for the phrase "horseshoe theory," nor are the "horseshoe theorists" ever clearly identified. This is unsalvagable OR/POV and is deserving of deletion. Charles 20:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, unless someone comes up with sources indicating that this isn't original research. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Hmmm... this article may contain a little original research, but it does quote some pretty notable authors whose views do seem to support the theory. Moreover, the very term horseshoe theory does not appear altogether new:
  

"I think Mr. Loewenstein has done a good job demonstrating why many people believe, as the “political horseshoe” theory states, that there is a lot more common ground between the far left, where Loewenstein dwells politically, and the far right views of someone like Betty Luks than people on the left would care to admit." [1].

and...

"The language many people use to talk about right-wing groups and movements -- "extremist," "lunatic fringe, "radical right," "wing nuts," -- and the idea of a political "horseshoe" map where "extremists of the left and right" merge, is a legacy of Centrist/Extremist Theory, sometimes called the Pluralist School. These ideas come from Lipset, Bell, and others who went on to form the neoconservative movement in the US. Many sociologists who study right wing movements consider Centrist/Extremist Theory to have been thoroughly discredited, yet it remains the primary model for public discussions, and influences major human relations groups in the US. "[2]

and...

"Jean-Pierre Faye's famous horseshoe theory (according to which extremes meet) finds verification here more than in other places, and the two states of delirium often mingle and meet, unfortunately spreading beyond these extremist circles."

Gentlemen, I think this article is legitimate. You should leave it on. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.163.128.164 (talk • contribs)

• • Comment You will forgive me, sir, but your argument is not the least bit convincing. Indeed, you seem to make little effort to defend the article at all. Though, you do follow many of the same habits of argument of the author of said article: You offer quotes but offer no sources for same, and when you do offer sources, they are of questionable notability and verifiability. No, not at all convincing. ---Charles 02:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
• del neologistic original essay on the topic "Extremes meet" in a political context. And who the heck is Jean-Pierre Faye to have "famous" theories no one heard of? Of reputable google links, the term "Horseshoe Theory" looks like to be more frequent in mathematical and geological contexts. `'mikkanarxi 02:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh, and by the way, almost forgot: this essay is not only original. but also false in several points of comarison. It looks like the author knows about Nazism and Communism from newspapers and movies. Especially corroborated by smartass tautological quotations like, "“Marxism has led to Fascism and National Socialism, because, in all essentials, it is fascism and National Socialism". `'mikkanarxi 02:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I just feel bad for not marking it earlier. Danny Lilithborne 02:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. An excellent example of a well-referenced article which happens to be almost entirely original research. Sockatume 05:22, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Checked the trimmed version described below. Needs a reference eventually but no objections to the stub. Sockatume 06:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

  Needs a reference "eventually"? It needs one before the end of this AfD, at least if I'm going to change my recommendation. At this point we're being asked to take someone's word for it? -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The user who trimmed seemed to have a reference available (see below) but simply didn't add it. Sockatume 01:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment:

'Jean-Pierre Faye's famous horseshoe theory (according to which extremes meet) ' is probably [3]

'unless one subscribes to the horseshoe theory of political analysis' is from [4] but I can't access the article.

I think the term may not be a complete neologism, and I suspect that JP Faye is probably better known in France than in the Anglosphere. While I think there is undeniable truth in the term, and possibly some truth in many of the claims in the article, the claims remains OR. I have reduced the article to a stub and I can see arguments both for keeping and for deleting what remains. I suggest that those who have voted may want to view the trimmed article and either reafirm or change their votes as appropriate. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

While working on that, BenAveling, did you find any sources indicating that what remains in the stub is, in fact, true? -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

It appears he wrote a book called "Les Langages totalitaires" in which the idea may have been introduced. That would be a good source to track down - for someone who understands French. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy beyond reasonable doubt that what remains in the stub is true. I trust Le Figaro enough for this purpose, and I doubt that anyone would fake up a translation of it. So I could be happier, but I'm happy enough that it's accurate.

• credited to Jean-Pierre Faye - the mention in the Le Figaro translation linked above.
• maintains that the extreme left and the extreme right, ... closely resemble one another - same again.
• much as the ends of a horseshoe approach each other. - strictly, the ends of a horse shoe don't get that close to each other, but as a metaphor, I think it conveys the desired information.

That the extreme left and right are in some ways similar is a common observation, though I've never before seen anyone put a name to it. I just wish I wasn't quite so reliant on tertiary references, and that I could say more about JPF] and what he had to say on the subject. Regards, Ben Aveling 08:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

• delete. Nonnotable political neologism, based on witty speculations. There is always possible to find some analogies between any two political trends. So what? "Figure Eight Theory"? "Hyperspace punchthrough Theory"? Mukadderat 01:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - anything worth saying can be said at Jean Pierre Faye. Langages totalitaires appears to be in print, as are Le langage meurtrier, Le vrai Nietzsche, Journal du voyage absolu, etc, etc. A look on Persée would probably find reviews, critiques and so on. Lots to say about Faye, but nothing worth saying about this tiny element, taken out of context, of his work. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.