Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Honestas Ante Honores

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE, as the material except the lyrics had already been merged into the main article. I added an external link to the lyrics in the main article, and made this article a Redirect. This seems the best compromise. Herostratus 04:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Honestas Ante Honores

Article concerning a non-notable secondary school song. Sufficient reference to the song is already included in the parent article[1]; this one simply adds the lyrics. Article was tagged with {{citations missing}}, then CSD, both removed by original author with no comment and no changes. Request Delete. --Satori Son 07:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect. I don't think the mention in the parent article is sufficient, but clearly there's a lot to excise, starting with the lyrics. A redirect would not only help give attribution after merging, but would avoid recreation and send people to the school article if they were looking for the song. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• I have updated the parent article with all info from this one except the lyrics. --Satori Son 11:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect per Mgm. Yomangani^talk 10:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• That's fine if you want to merge this content with King George V School. But you should include the lyrics. Along alumni this is often debated, and I pulled these words directly from the hymn book. Talking to other previous students, we felt it was important to add these lyrics. I felt that it may be inappropriate to include this in the main King George V School section, as it would dilute the value of that page. So I created this page. I am new to wikipedia, so I apologize if this was inappropriate. But like I stated previously, I think it is very important to either include the lyrics in the main page, or keep this one. Dpatri 13:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• By the way, in reference to Satori Son above. He is correct that I removed the deletion. But I DID make signficant changes to the content, indicating its value Dpatri 13:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry for the misstatement, which I have corrected above. What I meant to say was that no references or sources had been provided. Again, sorry. --Satori Son 13:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• No problem. Thanks for the correction. In terms of value -- it is only important to previous students -- However, it is oldest and most respected (debatable) English secondary school in Hong Kong and is often identified by its school song... not to repeat myself, but I just want the lyrics included somewhere. Dpatri 15:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• strong keep The merge target, King George V School is already a huge article and the school is notable, contrary to the nominator. And this article is not a stub. Splitting separate topics from big articles is a correct approach. Mukadderat 18:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I didn't know the nominator had to be notable... ;-) Seriously, I am not asserting that the parent school is non-notable, just its song. And I realize the King George V School article is long, but the only additional info in this article is the lyrics. How are you going to find "credible, third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" to confirm the lyrics to a high school song? Even the original author above admits there is debate as to the exact lyrics. It can't possibly pass WP:V, which is why we have notability requirements in the first place. --Satori Son 19:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
    • You may completely remove it from main article and put into "see also" section. This is a completely independent piece that may be safely removed from the main narration about the school. By the way, if the issue is verifiablity, the text xas no right to be in the main article either. As for "theird-party sources", in this case the school itself is a valid source, you don't need "third party": Lyrics is not an opinion or description, it is bare fact. Just like basic items about person's bio may be taken from his website. Mukadderat 19:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
      • You're right, the specific lyrics should probably not be included in the parent article. I appreciate what Dpatri, the original author, is trying to do, but WP:Verifiability is one of the few Wikipedia policies that is completely and totally non-negotiable. --Satori Son 18:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Ok, if verifiability is the only issue preventing this from being approved (from Satori Son's pov) then I found the song on the kgv.edu.hk page. I have cited this page in the wiki (If I have cited it incorrectly, please correct). I hope we can now say that this song is verifiable. BTW, I disagree with the words that are on the kgv.edu site, and can prove I am correct. For one, it is using the american english spelling of "Honour". This is a british school and is still using british english. Secondly there is a typo, saying "Honetas" when it should be "Honestas". I don't think anyone would dispute that, so my version is the corrected version. The whole reason I created this as separate is because the KGV main page is too long, and I feel the lyrics are important - and now verfiable from a trusted source (the school website) Dpatri 22:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
      • BTW, I am going to try to get the version on the kgv.edu.hk site corrected as well --Dpatri 22:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.