Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hogger (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh 06:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hogger

Hogger (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested prod, so AfD'd.

Non-notable fictional character. Carados (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Although, if there is no deletion review, speedy delete per WP:CSD#G4. ~ twsX · ^T_C · Typo-Warning! ~ 22:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy delete This is an easy one, not notable outside the game and this looks more like providing info about him (wp not a game guide) by telling what level can defeat, blah blah blah. Speedy applies. Pharmboy (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. Under which criterion? A7 doesn't apply to fiction published outside the web. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete for lack of evidence of notability. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. I think that the Hogger page is valid for Wikipedia. Hogger is a very popular character on the the MMORPG Computer Game World of Warcraft and I feel he should be granted his own wikipedia article. Cosmic Gardener (talk) 09:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Editors' personal opinions of popularity are irrelevant to this discussion. We do not base decisions on such subjective criteria, here at Wikipedia. What you need to show exist are multiple published works from independent sources that document this subject in depth. That is an argument that would actually hold water. Sources! Sources! Sources! Uncle G (talk) 06:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment Plenty of sources here: WOWinsider articles on Hogger. Or this page which has Hogger as the name of a movement. Whether they amount to notability as such, I don't know, but it's reasonable to say there is some interest in Hogger in the World of Warcraft that has been covered on at least some WOW news sites. This does, I think amount to third-part coverage, though the question of depth may vary enough that I don't know the answer. However, it at least behooves people to look, don't you think? The article could, I think be improved by noting this interest. Perhaps somebody might wish to help the original author by doing so? 68.101.22.132 (talk) 17:59, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is that Hogger has zero notability OUTSIDE of WoW. He hasn't entered popular culture in anyway outside the game itself, which means it is only an in universe character. Jedi have reached outside the Star Wars series, for example. Hogger has not. Pharmboy (talk) 21:34, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that is a problem, since there are people who are writing on the subject of Hogger. If it's specialized WOW or MMO resources, this doesn't mean the content isn't verifiable or that Hogger isn't notable within the WOW community. As a community of several million people, that's quite large enough to present arguments as to being able to present a case for notability. So, maybe you should give your thoughts on the coverage within the links instead? That might be more helpful than this argument which relies on what weight one gives sources. Sure, they're not the New York Times, but they're also not the Church social letter either. I agree with you so far as the level of him, and what you need to defeat him, but as the links I provided show, there's MORE to the story. Since the article is relatively new, I don't see that as problem. Just an opportunity to improve it. As an example, I might point out, Leeroy Jenkins who is just a player created character in the game. Yet due to a movie, there's an article about him. Do you think a similar article might be made from sources like the ones I easily found? And I didn't even look for in-print ones so maybe there's a Ballad of hogger out there too. 68.101.22.132 (talk) 23:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - a minor enemy character in World of Warcraft, who appears once as a mission, and is in no way notable. He isn't even notable in WoW other than as a named character even taking the fluff into consideration. Ben W Bell talk 19:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Someone another (talk) 21:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - With respect to anon's comments above, I'll be convinced about notability if the general gaming press has non-trivial coverage of this character. Marasmusine (talk) 16:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - per above. While I'm highly doubtful that notability can be asserted for such a minor character, if the anon above can provide such sources, then I might change my stance. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 03:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't actually care enough to go looking for more sources, I wouldn't have bothered looking for those if I hadn't recalled them. Of course, I'm surprised nobody has offered the idea of putting information on Wowwiki instead. Guess I'll have to do so. 68.101.22.132 (talk) 05:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

By all means, you don't have to. In any case, tranwiki is not an option considering that WoWWiki has an article on it already. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 08:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I meant more as advice to the contributing editor actually, as the article on Hogger there could use some work. Sorry if you misunderstood the intention. 68.101.22.132 (talk) 03:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. No notability, truly hilarious source list.Kww (talk) 16:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. Sourced article concerning a character in a game played by millions, i.e. notable to millions of people worldwide. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 17:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
• comment millions sounds like a big number to me. Pharmboy (talk) 17:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Notable in-game, but not generally. Jfire (talk) 18:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Minor boss with no serious coverage in reliable secondary sources, non-notable. WoW Wiki's article = right info, right place. Someone another (talk) 21:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.