Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hoffman (Saw)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. With the exception of CyberGhostface, arguments to keep are all "But I like it!". Neıl ☎ 11:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hoffman (Saw)

Hoffman (Saw) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete - prod removed by anon without comment which, whatever, way to back up your opinion there sport. Anyway, article fails WP:NOT#PLOT as it is nothing but a rehashing of the plot of the works in which the character appears. Otto4711 (talk) 21:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep This article simply needs some more info about the character from an outside source (interviews, etc), and it will be easy enough to obtain with the release of the Saw IV DVD, always loaded with commentaries and special features about the direction and creation of certain characters. Jack Of Hearts | Miss A Turn 22:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

• DVD commentaries are not independent sources. Even if they were, assuming that there will be interviews and special features about this character can't support the existence of the article. There may be no information offered about this character for all we know. Otto4711 (talk) 22:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, no evidence of real-world notability. Terraxos (talk) 04:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom -- just a rehashing of the plot -- and no reliable secondary sources means no real-world notability. Henrik Ebeltoft (talk) 03:49, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - I'll preface this by saying that I really don't know much about Wikipedia's policies concerning what consitutes an appropriate article, but it seems like this article has merit based on the fact that Jigsaw's other apprentice, Amanda Young, also has an extensive entry. The Saw franchise has already been approved for fifth and sixth installments, and it is a reasonable assumption that this new protégé will play a large role in the new films. Therefore, if this article is deleted for whatever reason, another is simply going to pop up in nine months when Saw V is released, since it will contain far more material related to this character which could easily be used flesh out the article. And I guess I also need to say that this isn't a dummy account or anything. I've used Wikipedia for a while, and have always been interested in contributing to it. Seeing this article marked for deletion (one that i just browsed to and utilized) prompted me to become involved. --Fiduch (talk) 23:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC) — Fiduch (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep He is vital for the story —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.62.253.163 (talk) 11:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC) — 212.62.253.163 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: Agreed, he is vital for the story. --Rutherfordjigsaw (talk) 19:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep: Why delete it, when more to his story is to come. --Morton Christopher (talk) 19:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep: Agreed --Fantasy Entertainment (talk) 19:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
• To everyone saying keep without actually addressing the objections to the article laid out in the nomination, did any of you maybe...wanna address the objections laid out in the nomination? Otto4711 (talk) 02:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. Memorable character in a notable franchise. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 17:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete no real world context. northing to assert notability outside of the franchise. No sources at all. Ridernyc (talk) 19:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Although someone will undoubtably start swinging around the WP:CRYSTAL tag after I say this, Costas Mandylor (the actor whose played Hoffman) is set to appear with a much bigger role in the next two films, given that the ending of Saw IV set him up as the new main antagonist. Even as it is, he's already given a couple of interviews regarding the film, and it shouldn't be too hard to find critical commentary about his character and Costas's portrayal of him in reviews. If this was a minor character in a direct-to-video Asylum flick, I'd support its deletion. But given how popular the Saw franchise has become, and how important Costas Mandylor's character has become to the series, his article should be kept.--CyberGhostface (talk) 00:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Alright, found some interviews.[1][2][3][4][5]--CyberGhostface (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment nothing has changed to address the concerns raised by the nominator. Still non-notable, all the sources found are primary. Ridernyc (talk) 23:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. Entirely plot summary with no secondary sources to indicate notability. It's doubtful acceptable sources independent of the subject exist to establish notability or to provide any sort of real-world context. Doctorfluffy (talk) 04:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. User:Rutherfordjigsaw and User:Morton Christopher have very similar user pages (nearly exact copies of each other with only one userbox being different) and they voted within three minutes of each other. I found this thread at WP:ANI from a few months ago, but nothing came of it. I doubt they are socks, but I believe that they might be meatpuppets and are votestacking. Doctorfluffy (talk) 04:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
• Strong keep important character. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.