Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hitomi Soga

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, default to Keep. Walton^talk 16:44, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hitomi Soga

Hitomi Soga (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

I prod'ed this article, on the grounds that the notability of this particular woman seems entirely connected to that of Charles Robert Jenkins, her husband. Pretty much everything of importance about her is already in his article, so a merger would accomplish nothing. The article was de-prod'ed by an IP arguing that because she was abducted by North Korea, she's notable. I'm not convinced this is a claim to notability (somewhere between 16 and 80 people were abducted, according to the article on the events), so I've brought it here. The fact that no references are cited is probably a red herring, since most references will most likely be in Japanese BigHaz - Schreit mich an 13:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails to satisfy WP:BIO (note #4: ...person who is "part of the enduring historical record...") and WP:BLP. --Aarktica 16:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• Comment she is notable in Japan for being a kidnapping victim, however in the United States, it is her husband whom is notable. If this article is deleted, then should a redirect be created? To an article on North Korean kidnappings or to her husband, as both are proper targets. It would seem that if it is deleted, there still needs to be a stub page created to link to two things. North Korean abductions of Japanese and Charles Robert Jenkins 132.205.44.134 18:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Even in Japan, are all the abductees equally notable? I'm not so sure. Redirect to Charles Robert Jenkins, which satisfies the navigational concerns of 132.205.44.134. --Dhartung | Talk 19:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect the main notability is the husband. DGG 23:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Extremely noteworthy. Her name is extremely widely known in Japan, and has been for many years. That her husband is an American makes it appear to English speakers that she's notable because of him, but in Japan it may be described as the reverse. Fg2 01:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • This is the kind of discussion I was hoping would occur. Are there sources (I'll take your word for what they say in Japanese if that's the case) showing this? BigHaz - Schreit mich an 02:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • • Sources: The English site of Japan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has a search box; typing "Soga Hitomi" resulted in 22 hits at this one agency in English alone. One of these, Japan-North Korea Relations May 2004, states that "Deputy Director-General of Asian and Oceanian Affairs Bureau of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan Akitaka Saiki addressed the UN Human Rights Commission's Working Group on Enforced or Involuntary Disappearance, outlining the additional material presented in October and a message from Ms Hitomi Soga, one of the abductees who returned to Japan." Fg2 02:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I'm not sold on that particular source that you cited, since her name only appears the once. Admittedly the article is about the phenomenon of the abductions, but it's not really about her. I'll see what the other results yield, though. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 02:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Followup: The other results look to be rather trivial mentions (did the Minister receive a complaint that her room in Indonesia was too expensive?), rather than anything particularly weighty. It seems to me as though one of the reasons the questions such as they are deal with her is simply because she's the local girl, if I can put it that way. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 02:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Strong 'Keep Numerous instances of independent coverage in Japanese edia; you can see a list at ja:曽我ひとみ (If you can't read Japanese, you can at least look at the domain names of the links to see that these are WP:RS and not just random websites). As pointed out above, whether you think Soga is notable because of Jenkins or Jenkins is only notable because of Soga pretty much depends on what language you read the news in. People in the US don't especially care about Soga, and think of Jenkins as a traitor, while people in Japan are obviously quite sympathetic to Soga, which extends to Jenkins regardless of the fact that he defected, because it isn't really an issue to them (since he's not their countryman). cab 05:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The article at the Japanese Wikipedia relates to the general event of North Korean abductions of Japanese people, though, not specifically to this individual. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - The abuctions of young Japanese women to North Korea were major events in the 70's and 80's.[1][2]. That this particular kidnap victim met and merried Robert Jenkins makes here even more notable (CNN article about them here).--Oakshade 09:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep It is an important issue in its own right, that she was abducted should make her noteable enough by itself. Also, Wikipedia, while in English, isnt addressed only to Americans. English is an international language. Ms. Soga is probably more noteable in Japan than Mr. Jenkins. Druworos 10:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect to North Korean abductions of Japanese since she lacks notability other than for this one incident of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being abducted. Thge references seem more like directory listings. Clearly we have not recently been keeping all articles about kidnap victims. Edison 19:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Not just any abuductee, but a very notable one that the Japanese public and media were obsessed with. --Oakshade 22:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yes. Frequently in the international news in Japan as an individual for three decades. Fg2 03:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep She is extremely notable (perhaps second to Megumi Yokota) in Japan for being abducted. Even today she still appears in the news every few months: 6/9, 4/21 etc. The article could definitely be improved, but it would be a shame to delete it. Bendono 06:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Seems to be no less notable than her American husband. --kingboyk 21:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.