Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heriot-Watt University Students Association

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I chose not to merge since there was nothing to merge (one sentence), chose not to redirect since I doubt this will actually be typed in ever. Wizardman 23:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heriot-Watt University Students Association

Heriot-Watt University Students Association (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Article about a non-notable Students' Union, that doesn't link to any external third-party sources to confirm notability. TalkIslander 19:43, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Keep — Why does notability matter? I fail to see how removing factual, verifiable information would make an encyclopedia better. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 20:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment Heh, never seen you out of RfA before - lucky this isn't a self-nom ;). Why does notability matter? Hmm, well, other than it being one of the core policies of Wikipedia, I suppose it doesn't really... TalkIslander 21:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, but policy is non-binding. It's merely a description of what has typically happened in the past. We're expected to use our own judgment to decide whether or not it's a good idea to do it again in any given present situation. Blindly following a bunch of non-binding "rules" and "policies" is hardly helpful. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 21:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
        • As per the rubrik at the top of that page: "It is a generally accepted standard that editors should follow, though it should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception". What's your reason for exception here? Yes, it's a policy, and yes, it should not always be blindly followed, but in general it should be. It should only be ignored if there's good reason to, and here there is none, or at least you haven't stated any. Your argument strikes me as fairly WP:POINTy. It would appear that you have issues with WP:N, and so, instead of discussing it in the appropriate place, you are happy to just disregard it. TalkIslander 21:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
          • My reason for exception is this: deleting this article would harm the encyclopedia. It's simple as that. Do what's best for the encyclopedia, non-binding "rules" and "policies" be damned. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 21:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
            • Fair enough. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. TalkIslander 22:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, notability is not a core policy and is not any sort of policy. I would have thought an admin would have knew this... Anyway, redirect to Heriot-Watt University. EJF (talk) 23:20, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I was using the word 'core' in it's literal sense, as in central to Wikipedia, not in the particular sense that Wikipedia uses. As for policy, you're quite right, I should have known that. TalkIslander 08:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
      • I can't complain really though, it's partly my own fault! EJF (talk) 16:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
        • Heh, indeed :P. Well, don't forget my answer to question four of my RfA, though I would hope that this isn't concerning enough to go near that route, let alone down it... TalkIslander 16:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
          • No, I don't think so — perhaps if you go on the rampage and randomly delete dozens of articles for not having notability and start claiming NOR and NPOV are not important I may be forced to! But it would be too much hassle collecting diffs and canvassing other people to support the recall for me to bother ;-) EJF (talk) 17:19, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep the major student association of major universities are notable, and this one is in hat class.A good place to merge other articles. DGG (talk) 00:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
What is it notable for though? Being a student union? A university with a student union? How is this notable, couldn't this be merged with the university? There's nothing in the article, it's completely empty.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 03:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Category that includes these has about 75 of them already. Why is this one less notable. Eclecticology (talk) 00:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
    • That doesn't follow. An article has to be notable in itself.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 03:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep per DGG. Notability is not a policy. It is a guideline. Student Unions in the UK are notable because of the size of their membership and budget and the many student societies that they sponsor. References can surely be found. They are independent of the university. I just do not understand this urge to delete these articles. --Bduke (talk) 01:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • While I am not going back on this view, it is clear that this article has not been expanded to the level that many other student union articles have (including several that have been recently brought to AfD and kept). Unless this article is significantly expanded by the time this AfD is closed, I recommend merge to the university article, until such material is found and added there. I would have a go myself, but I am too busy and it would be more time consuming to do it from here in Australia than by someone who had access to libraries in Edinburgh. --Bduke (talk) 23:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge or Delete. The article is empty, and does not assert notability, and is completely unreferenced (not verifiable) by third party sources. I'm prepared to believe that a notable article can be written, but this isn't currently it.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 03:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. Fails notability guideline, specifically related to organizations, on all accounts.—Noetic Sage 05:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep deleting this article would harm the entire info from being displayed here in encyclopedia . we are not comitted to any rules here but to keep wikipedia a reliable information provider and a better encyclopedia . deleting or editing its notability means a lack in info and our pledge to keep wikipedia a complete encyclopedia will be compromised .Бриллиантжемчуг (talk) 15:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC) - banned sockpuppet, see their talk
  • Merge The entire article consists of one sentence that basically says The Heriot-Watt University Students Association is the association of students at Heriot-Watt University and contains the inevitable logo and infobox. I have no objections to breaking this out into a separate article if it get too large to be included at Heriot-Watt University. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 17:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge - no assertion of notability! Merge to the main Heriot-Watt article. 2nd choice: Delete--RedShiftPA (talk) 03:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge with RD: a single statement on the existence of the topic doth not an article make. --PeruvianLlama(spit) 17:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge what little content there is to Heriot-Watt University, and then put a redirect to the relevant section. (If, and only if, in future the Heriot-Watt article has subsequently expanded to such an extent that a split is needed, then reconsider splitting at that time.) --RFBailey (talk) 20:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • There are no sources to indicate that this organization is notable. I support either deletion, or merging to the University page. seresin | wasn't he just...? 00:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, per Kurt Weber. This AFD is absurd on its face. I'm not even going to go into details of why I believe it's so ridiculous, because it's self-evident. That such things could even be nominated for deletion on this, the greatest encyclopedia of the world, which aims to encompass all subjects notable (and this subject is clearly notable), and that others could embrace the suggestion that it's non-notable, as though marching lock-step behind the nominator, is beyond my ken. Please, we must be independent thinkers here; we must not simply go with the crowd and be taken in by such foolishness. I have nothing further to say about this. Obuibo Mbstpo (talk) 22:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Note The above user is currently involved in a debate regarding vote canvassing at AfD and has copied this same statement to multiple active AfDs. [1] --Torchwood Who? (talk) 23:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete or merge. Heriot-Watt has a student association? Who knew? Oh, wait, all universities have one. Guy (Help!) 23:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge with Heriot-Watt University. No independent verifiable source or claims of notability. Abecedare (talk) 23:12, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • (Hmmm, I agree that notability criteria are a tad odd... they were formed at AFD in a sense, so I guess they can be undone by AFD too). I'm neutral on this one. If someone can point to one or preferably two good sources external to the association, I'd say we can keep. --Kim Bruning (talk) 01:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete, else explain why everything in the universe does not deserve an article claiming existence: Jane Smith is a person named Smith. Or Jimmy's Bar and Grill is a bar owned by someone named Jimmy. And, uh, it has a grill. I don't even understand the Merge votes—there's little to merge. I suppose the Heriot-Watt article could include a sentence saying The university has an eponymous student association.—johndburger 15:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - nothing special about it. NN, WP:ORG... just like every other nn student union/gov/assn out there. - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 16:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.