Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helen Hollick

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep (nomination withdrawn). Bucketsofg 04:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Helen Hollick

Helen Hollick (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The prod was contested several weeks ago with the comment "I disagree". So I'm bringing it here. I believe the subject doesn't satisfy WP:BIO and lacks sufficient reliable sources for attribution. Most of the sources that I found via Google or are provided in the article are just a list of books. The single substantial source was this piece from a (minor?) historical fiction society detailing a visit with Ms. Hollick.

Most of her books' articles were prodded or speedily deleted as spam. Also nominating:

*Delete no sources, couldn't find any notability. Alex43223 T | C | E 00:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete. As TBC notes, things look self published. I can't find much in the way of reviews (and no reviews from publications of any type)Given the information below, I change to Keep. My bad. --Hobit 00:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete non-notable author. Due to the new sources and vote changes that borders WP:SNOW, I think we should keep and rewrite it instead. Wooyi 01:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment She is NOT entirely self published. It took a little digging, but "Arrow/Childrens" is an imprint of RandomHouse in the UK, and according to this site that is who published her books Kingmaking, Harold the King, Pendragon's Banner and Shadow of the King. Her book "Come and Tell Me" was published by HarperCollins. I assume her books went out of print and that she started reissuing them herself, which shouldn't sway us one way or the other, frankly. Worthy authors will do the same thing. At this point I'm neutral on whether to keep or delete. I think that depends on some kind of independent recognition of her talent, doesn't it? At least some book reviews, I suppose. Noroton 03:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I never said she was entirely self published, only that a majority of her books were.--TBCΦtalk? 03:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, but I get the impression that the majority weren't "only" self-published. Minor point anyway. Noroton 03:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • CHANGE TO KEEP (for reasons, see my comments below)Delete because I can't find book reviews that I can identify as from sources other than blogs, or other coverage besides the one TBC found. I did find this item in Rare Book Review but it's extremely short, not a full article. I'd change my mind if someone could point me to at least a couple of full-fledged articles about her somewhere, which I think would satisfy WP notability. Noroton 03:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • delete per above. /Blaxthos 09:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Follow up After being contacted to review my delete vote since the introduction of some sources, I still think this is a valiant effort towards self-publicity. I affirm my vote. /Blaxthos 22:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment. Self-publicity is something a little cleanup can handle. The article is short enough that a full re-write would be simple. In particular, the quotes from reviews need to be removed for copyright and WP:NPOV purposes- it's kind of silly to base critical reception on a quote which the author decides to present on her website. It'd be much easier to have access to the full reviews. --Wafulz 22:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Change to KeepI too am chaging my vote to keep, now refs have been added it meets WP:V and I think it gets a pass on WP:BIO.Tellyaddict 18:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

*Delete per above reason by Telly Bmg916 Speak to Me 19:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Changing to KEEP, has been re-written and sourced well. Could use some more work, but certainly no longer warrants deletion. Bmg916 Speak to Me 23:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

COMMENT. I am Helen Hollick. I am a respected and well known author of mainstream historical fiction. I do not know how to use this site, I trust I have not made any errors with this insertion. Until today I was unaware I had an entry here.

BookForce UK is my printer, I am published, now, by Discovered Diamonds, which is the new, small independent mainstream branch of BookForce. You are confusing self publish with vanity publish. I have a full mainstream contract with this company. ONLY my latest novel "Sea Witch" is "technically" self published, my Arthurian Trilogy and Harold the King are re-published editions of out of print books published previously by William Heineman. I trust you are not going to penalise respected authors who wish to keep their books in print and who have no choice but to "self publish" when their mainstream books fall out of print! We do have a living to make, and our back lists are very important.

My novel A Hollow Crown remains in print with William Heineman. My children's personal safety book Come and Tell Me is published by Happy Cat Books. This book was the official Home Office safety Book for ten years.

I am a member of the Society of Authors. I am co-script writer for a pre-production movie "1066"

You will find plenty of up to date information about myself at www.helenhollick.net

I am about to go on my second lecture tour in the Netherlands, (subject, Harold the King) I have been guest speaker on several occasions for the Historical Novel Society. I have written several articles for various magazines - I refer you to my articles etc on my web site.

The Historical Novel Society is an international highly acclaimed society. Your information regarding my books, I am afraid, is inaccurate and out of date.

a selection of reviews from my initial publication with William Heineman:

"A wonderful book...breathes new life into an ancient legend" Best selling Historical fiction author Sharon Penman

Hollick's interpretation is bold, affecting and well worth fighting to defend." Publishers Weekly, November 11 1996

"Helen Hollick joins the ranks of Rosemary Sutcliff, Mary Stewart and Marion Bradley with this splendid novel" Pendragon Magazine

"Uniquely compelling...bound to have a resounding and lasting impact on Arthurian fiction" Books Magazine

"Weaves together fact, legend and inspired imagination to create a world so real we can breathe the smoke of its fires and revel into Romano-British lust for life, love and honour" Historical Novels Review


"A uniquely compelling novel which is bound to have a resounding and lasting impact on Arthurian fiction." Books

"An epic tale... Helen Hollick has done her homework meticulously and her story gleams with convincing Dark Age detail." Ms. London


Whether the events described actually happened this way is unimportant, that the reader feels instinctively that they could have happened this way is the sign of a superior novel. This is a fabulous read and one to be recommended unreservedly - even to committed "Williamites". If only all historical fiction could be this good." Sara Wilson, Historical Novel Society, 2001.

"Local author Helen Hollick has achieved a miracle by making this reviewer sit still and silent for a whole weekend, stirring only to eat toast whilst devouring Helen's gripping book. And it's a damn big one at that, sweeping from England to France, from Wessex to Normandy, following the fortunes of Harold Godwine, Earl of Wessex and later King of England, and William, Duke of Normandy. Treachery, arrogance, lies and weakness contrast with courage, honesty, strength and of course, plenty of love interest to make you weep. Illegitimacy, fallen kings, plenty of hunting scenes and some great sea journeys and bloody battles; we follow the fortunes of the cast from 1044 right up to the Battle of Hastings itself, which is brilliantly recreated.

Helen also provides at the end an explanation for some of her plot "changes" - for example, her Harold is not killed by the arrow in the eye at all, but is beheaded - on the grounds that as most of the information concerning the battle and William's claim to the English throne comes from Norman sources its veracity is questionable. Compelling stuff." SW Magazine, March 2001


"Countdown to conquest. Today, one could be forgiven for thinking that Tony Blair's Labour government had invented spindoctoring. In her epic story, retelling the tide of events that led to the Norman Conquest, Helen Hollick shows us the truth. England 1044. The Godwine family is one of the most powerful families in England. As Earl Godwine's six sons start to reach maturity, so they are rewarded with power and influence. Harold Godwine, skilled at both the machinations of court and at fighting, has inherited all his father's diplomatic skills - but none of his lust for battle. In France, William, bastard son of a duke, is brought up at the court, but trained to be a soldier. Attractive and arrogant, he is an exciting leader, inspiring his men to ever greater victories.

Though still precociously young, his fame begins to spread. When events in England take a dramatic and bloody turn, the Godwines are forced into exile. They must fight their way back into favour, and a power struggle ensues, which will eventually make Harold king. But William has already seen the weakness which exists in England ... the Battle of Hastings is the terrible and bloody result.

Following the battle, William's spindoctors justify the atrocities that have taken place and his claim to the throne. They advise him to build Battle Abbey as a penance, and ensure that all information comes from Norman sources. In this masterly and colourful recreation, Helen Hollick weaves together the history of a powerful family of noblemen, with that of the aggressive bastard of Normandy - culminating in the fierce and tragic battle which changed the course of England's history." Bolton Evening News, 21 Oct 2000.

"This re-telling of the events leading up to the Battle of Hastings in 1066 through the eyes of the men and women involved mixes together historical fact with plenty of personality. Hollick, whose previous novels were about Arthurian Britain, juxtaposes the stories of Harold and William as events conspire to produce the Norman Conquest.

What is most inspiring about Hollick is that she can produce such a mammoth book from a household where she is the only reader - both her husband and daughter suffering from severe dyslexia." Cliff Moore, Dorset Evening Echo - Weymouth - 28 Oct 2000


I will be happy to provide you with any other information you require

I can be contacated via my website

www.helenhollick.net

Helen Hollick—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.188.151 (talk • contribs)

  • Comment. Hm, I'm willing to give it you the benefit of the doubt and I'll probably end up withdrawing the suggestion to delete once I have time to give this a more in-depth look. The articles will have to be rewritten substantially for Wikipedia guidelines though. --Wafulz 22:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I've just sent an email to Helen Hollick through www.helenhollick.net. A copy of the email is at my talk page here. If she can send me the information we can use to establish notability, I will be happy to add it to the story. I've also changed my vote to "Keep", basically on faith that we can get the right confirmation in the article (presumably from articles not on the Internet). I think if we do this that it would satisfy editors here, and I hope any administrator would extend this debate if need be, for a few days if that's what it takes to get it done. Noroton 01:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Can agree with withdrawal in that, now, with the sources that have been presented, it can be cleaned up to conform with policy. Alex43223 T | C | E 23:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.