Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harry's Legend

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. Hu12 04:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harry's Legend

Harry's Legend (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable Happy-melon 21:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose - When a famous video gaming magazine (EGM) and a popular internet comedy site (Something Awful) mention and lampoon the game, you know it is notable. WhisperToMe 21:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Delete Unencyclopedic and NN. A mention in a single magazine and on a website do not constitute substantial coverage. Rackabello 21:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - The reasoning demonstrated in the post above is flawed. Electronic Gaming Monthly is a major United States gaming magazine. 1up.com, EGM's affiliate, is ranked 2,937 - This is a very high Alexa ranking (See [1]) - Calling it "a single magazine and on a website" is not conveying the major readership of both. WhisperToMe 02:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Happy-melon 21:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. One magazine, that's it. Citation on Something Awful does not constitute a reliable source. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 21:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Added note, the EGM blurb only mentions the game in brief. Even less in the way of notability. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and

stuff) 21:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• • • Comment: This is the paragraph in question: " Hacker Software - What fun would homemade hardware be without homemade software to go along with it? Aside from the wide amount of Asian bootleg NES software available, the most impressive hack we've found is a completely original unlicensed Chinese Harry Potter game in which the young Where's Waldo-looking wizard journeys through the Dursley homestead kicking the crap out of rats, bats, fats (Dudley and Vernon), and, uh, Voldemort. And that's just before Harry learns he's a wizard.

" - This section prominently features the game. How many subscribers of EGM saw this? Do you want me to find out which magazine this appears in? Then what? You are going to have to prove that it is not notable. WhisperToMe 02:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• • • Comment 2 - As for SA, the site is being used to show that people are discussing Harry's Legend as a proof of its notability. Despite the fact that SA isn't a reliable source, it is an extremely popular website. The actual meat of the article will come from the game itself and from the 1UP.COM/EGM article. Somethingawful is just a signal that people already know about the game. WhisperToMe 05:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Article fails to show reliable 3rd party verification via WP:RS to establish notability. Supplied links are interesting perhaps but fail policy. Pharmboy 21:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: How do they fail policy? "Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no editorial oversight. Questionable sources should only be used in articles about themselves. (See below.) Articles about such sources should not repeat any contentious claims the source has made about third parties, unless those claims have also been published by reliable sources." - I would think that EGM has fact-checking, huh? All I need is one reliable source, right? If so, then this is flawed, and the nominator's argument is flawed. WhisperToMe 02:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per the above and others. uncyclopedic. -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 22:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable, only one reliable source. Melsaran 15:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
  • All I need is one reliable third party source to state that the game is notable. That's it. After that, I can use the game itself as a source about itself. If there is no policy stating that an article like this needs X third party sources to be notable, then this is flawed. WhisperToMe 02:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment - I will say that EGM should be enough of a third party reliable source to keep this article afloat. Unless there is good reasoning to state that more reliable sources have to be placed in order to prove that this article is notable, then the reasoning of all of the delete votes is flawed.

Let me quote from Wikipedia:Notability: ""Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than trivial but less than exclusive.1 "Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject are a good test for notability.2 "Sources,"3 defined on Wikipedia as secondary sources, provide the most objective evidence of notability. The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources. Multiple sources are generally preferred.4 "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject including: self-publicity, advertising, self-published material by the subject, autobiographies, press releases, etc.5 "

From the quote above, in one section, the article addresses the game directly and gives some detail "in which the young Where's Waldo-looking wizard journeys through the Dursley homestead kicking the crap out of rats, bats, fats (Dudley and Vernon), and, uh, Voldemort. And that's just before Harry learns he's a wizard. " - Harry's Legend is a very simplistic fighting game (One can tell this when he or she downloads the game and plays it), so not a whole lot of text is needed to say that the game is addressed in some detail. No, this isn't a full-fledged review, but the game is described to the readers. The editors state WHY they consider Harry's Legend to be "the most impressive hack we've found," so this satisfies the detail requirement.

- EGM is a published news magazine, and 1UP.com is its affiliate. Therefore it satisfies all three guidelines here. WhisperToMe 02:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment: The author of the EGM article that mentions and describes Harry's Legend wrote his own more-lengthy review of the game on his personal website: http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Site/HarryPotterForNES (If you look at Parish's profile via 1UP.com, the "personal website" listed in his profile redirects to gamespite, so this IS Parish's website) WhisperToMe 03:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• • OK. Your commentary on my talk page aside (which is more or less reproduced from this discussion), you've only turned up one more page that goes into a rather detailed description of game play. That doesn't make the game notable, it just documents game play. That, and it's only one source. You need to do more than one. Unless you can do this, my !vote above stands. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 06:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• • Same about commentary the on my talk page (which I would argue is a very bad idea to do, but I digress). Perhaps there are notable sources that are not in English, which of course would make it notable in THAT language, ie: china. Again, no one is saying the game doesn't exist, but exising and being notable are 2 different things. Pharmboy 12:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• • • Should I ask Voidvector to check Baidu to see if any reliable Chinese sources pop out? He did it before and didn't find anything, but maybe another search will find another source. There was a non-professional/verifiable Japanese source, so maybe a verifiable article exists in Japanese. WhisperToMe 07:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, mentioned by 1up. --Voidvector 04:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
• Weak keep, seems not very notable, but EGM/1UP and Something Awful found it worth writing about, so that makes it borderline to me. --Allefant 12:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

EDIT - This may be a hack of "The Waterboy" - Although technically this isn't considered to be a reliable source, this screenshot seems to suggest that "Harry's Legend" is a hack of "The Waterboy" - If this fails AFD, then we can just merge it into an article about "The Waterboy" - http://www.datacrystal.org/wiki/The_Waterboy WhisperToMe 15:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: WHups - that itself is a ROM hack! AT first I thought this was the original. Hmm, this is confusing... WhisperToMe 15:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• Delete only mentioned in passing on EGM. If they devote an entire article to it then it might be notable. Not when it's just a paragraph. -- 我♥中國 16:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  • They do devote one, apparently, but as I note, it's nothing more than a description of game play. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 22:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.