Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge to Half-Life 2. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-02-19 11:45Z

[edit] Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms

Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

What makes this list encyclopedic or of value? The sole reference is a forum thread, which last I checked wasn't considered a reliable source. If the article is only a rehashing of whats in that thread I don't see the value or benefit of it being on wikipedia. I realize that HL2 is a big important franchise in the gaming world, but every little detail and piece of minutia surrounding it are not necessarily important or needed coverage. To nip it in the bud, arguments from WP:ILIKEIT aren't good reasons to keep this article.Crossmr 05:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Merge. Some of the stuff the article covers is notable--the source code leak, for instance, was a big deal at the time, and reliable sources could be found for it--see here and [1], for instance, assuming that The Register is a RS. There's also this on cnnmoney.com. The forum post might be a reliable source as well, since it was made by the president of Valve. However, I think anything that can be sourced will probably fit in Half-Life 2. --Akhilleus (talk) 05:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

  The post on sciforums links to a non-existent steam thread. At the most the original post made by an identifiable company individual can be considered reliable (one of the only things a forum post can be used for) but none of the resulting comments from Joe User can be used as a source for anything. So really we have no sources in the article. I know the source code leak was big, and it would make sense to merge that one item with the parent article, but if nothing else can be properly source it should be removed.--Crossmr 06:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Weak keep This article is of value; I'm not convinced deleting it is the best way to deal with the genuine controversies and criticisms aired about HL2. --Gwern (contribs) 05:53 14 February 2007 (GMT) 05:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

  An article without proper sources is inherently without value on wikipedia. Unless sources can be provided, regardless of is "value" it doesn't belong here.--Crossmr 06:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Merge with the main article. I don't believe any so-called criticisms of the game are widespread enough to justify a separate article which by its very existence comes off as a bit of a POV fork. If merging adds too much content to the HL2 article, there may be items here that could be instead merged with the article on Valve Software. To reply to the comment by Crossmr, lack of sources is not an immediate cause for deletion; even the current guideline/policy (whatever you call it) allows for time for sources to be added and this can be done as part of the merge. There are plenty of "of value" articles on Wikipedia that either lack sources (and are awaiting addition of same upon request) or have sources but in the POV of some editors the sources aren't valid. 23skidoo 06:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

  Wikipedia isn't a primary source. So the truest piece of information in the world really doesn't add to an article if you can't prove it. The article has been around long enough that someone should have provided sources. I asked 8 days ago, and none have been provided or even discussed as on the way. I'm not saying there aren't sources, but if this article goes through an AfD, and all we end up with is some sources on the source code leak, I don't feel comfortable merging anything else until sources are provided for the information. WP:V places the burden of evidence on the editor who wants the material kept. There is no requirement to keep the material indefinitely or move it around until someone can be bothered to look to see if there is actually a source for it.--Crossmr 06:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep, but trim down to the things verifiable from reliable sources (like the source code leak). The main HL2 article is already big and this was probably a split off from that, so merging back might not be a good idea. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Merge any non-OR into Half-Life 2. Just H 15:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Merge into Half-Life 2 if possible, otherwise keep. There's all sorts of articles about some of this stuff at BBC News, such as the source code leak, the Vivendi dispute, and the lag-tastic launch day. Steam's own tech support pages can cover technical faults, and i've got an old PC Gamer somewhere with an article about the stuttering bug. CaptainVindaloo ^{t c e} 15:36, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Merge into the Half-Life 2 page or keep. Its just some random facts that are cool and interesting I never knew about most of that stuff. --Actown ^Talk 18:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Merge - Wiki doesn't collect info. A comprehensive page of every criticism is hardly encyclopedic. It should be merged with the main article, and trimmed of less reliable sources.  BIGNOLE   (Question?)  (What I do)  21:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep as it has information which is bot interesting and useful to people having problems with the game or Merge to the Half Life 2 page- though the HL2 page is pretty bulky without this page added onto it. I think that the link to this page that already exists on the HL2 page is the best idea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.37.11.206 (talk) 12:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

  Interesting and useful are not valid reasons for keeping something on wikipedia, again read WP:ILIKEIT.--Crossmr 15:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.