Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grace Talarico di Capace

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was - Delete Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 20:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grace Talarico di Capace

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Grace Talarico di Capace (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

At first glance, this article seems to be reasonably well written and sourced (and surprisingly detailed); but if one reads it carefully, one will notice that it never actually manages to say that the subject has ever done anything notable. That's not the main problem, though. I've examined all of the sources cited in the article, save one, and none of them contains a single mention of this woman or her family or any member thereof. (The one I haven't looked at is the vaguely cited "American Society of Portrait Artists." This, however, is used only to establish that the woman once had a portrait painted of herself, which, whether or not it's true, is not enough to write an article around.) Moreover, every one of the 19 unique Google hits for "Grace Talarico di Capace" or "Grazia Talarico di Capace" is WP, a WP mirror, or a link to WP. In short, what we have here is, in the most generous possible interpretation, a mass of unverifiable original research disguised by deceptive references. Deor (talk) 01:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete, per excellent nom rationale. If it's not a hoax (as the lack of sourcing would lead me to believe), then this person was certainly not notable anyway. Lankiveil (speak to me) 01:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC).
  • Delete thanks to well-researched nom. No real demonstration of the notability of the subject is made in the article. Darkspots (talk) 02:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Do Not Delete
  • Hey Deor howz it goin!
  • I became interested in Grace TdC because of the artist J. Zangwell Gilbert. Gilbert is an important Alumni of the American Academy of Art who also shared his time teaching kids about art at O. A. Thorp Academy. Grace's portrait and her bio was listed in the American Society of Portrait artists published in unison with Utrect, a prominent art supply company.
  • She and her family were essential to Pucci's Roman salon during the 60's and she is well talked about in Roma the appendage to that Florentine exhibition book on Pucci. I was super interested in her because she is from a visagoth family, how cool is that !!!, and she was involved with pucci as a teenager, and I am a BIG BIG fan of Pucci! She was also linked to the artist Roulle who I also love!!! This ex-surfer dude is a sucker for anything 60's, Mod, and with water, as you already know, especially Venice- the only city surfin on Water!!!
  • I first created articles on Thorp Academy and Ruolle, and then moved on to this one which isn't fully polished yet. I want to add pics to both this one and the Ruolle one, but checking on copy rights- any who. 1st, anyone intersted in Italian fashion designers will appreciate the additional info contained within the article about the pucci Roman salon- it is also written in a great context to other fashion topics too, like Battistioni which has no info on wikipedia, people into fashion will apperciate that. 2nd, there is a nice tie in to give some Visagoth info as well-which is also useful info for Wikipedia. It is just a great little article that gives some super info about Pucci's Roman salon, and the crucial people that made the important fashions out it- there is additional info to Gina Lollobridgida- it's all worthwhile info. I'll polish it more, Deor, but ya gotta give me a chance to rest now and then, researching is hard work. Any who, kudos to the dude that put up the picture to my Nymphaeun section I wrote on the Villa Barbaro page- Looks great! See if someone can also track down a pic of the Timpietto too! Oh well, great talkin to ya Deor, gotta get a bite to eat, haven't eaten dinner yet! Talk to ya soon Deor, McTMctrain (talk) 03:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Nice catch by the nominator. The large number of references that don't actually mention the subject strongly indicates a hoax, but even if the informations is correct there's no indication of notability. Edward321 (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


  • Delete, well-crafted hoax. --Dhartung | Talk 05:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, "gubbergirl" and "stylestarry" are my daughters, which I told them that if they wanted to voice their opinion about this article- that they would have to create their own account not to be confussed with mine. They are not sock puppets, nor is this a hoax- I am a well documented contributor to wikipedia. Thank youMctrain (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Please note that the enlistment of meatpuppets is, for all practical purposes, the same as sockpuppetry. —Travistalk 19:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete: Most likely a hoax. Good work nominator! Seicer (talk) (contribs) 06:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Gary King (talk) 09:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete, the person who painted her portrait may be notable, but there's no evidence she is. It's a wikimirror farm! Travellingcari (talk) 23:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Move and revise DELETE to Talarico di Capace. The material looks more like an overview of a minorly notable family, but completely fails to assert the singular notability of 'Grace'. IF this were all moved to a page for the family, the sourcing and such might meet notability standards, and if not, should be examined for that distinct criteria ('is the talarico di capace family notable enough, in toto, for a page?' ) ThuranX (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Comment. And what sources do you recommend using? Deor (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Reply. The article as stands has seven unique sources. Seems something useful can be culled from that. As for the attitude you're throwing around, watching you poke and provoke another editor as you've been doing is quickly looking like a Bad Faith/POINT violation, with a salting of stalking. There's no evidence of sockpuppetry, as he freely admits to the identities of the two other editors, and the closing admin can take that for wahtever it's worth; you still have yet to show that this is a hoax, and not just a non-notable figure. but you sure love dropping those accusations left and right. No clue what your problem with Mctrain is, but it sure reads to me like you're going after him. I recommend you back off fast. ThuranX (talk) 20:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
The article has no sources that contain information about anyone named Talarico di Capace. And I've said nothing about sockpuppetry or hoaxes. Deor (talk) 21:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
In light of the later evidence that there is a long term, wide ranging hoax going on here, I've changed to Delete. ThuranX (talk) 06:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Hoax, as an examination of the evidence shows. And the article creator's argumentative tone seems somewhat familar. --Calton | Talk 11:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


The premise of the argument for deletion is based, first and foremost, on an untruth. She is completelty talked about in both sources of Pucci within the "Roma" atelier appendage, with even photos of her and her work, and in the American Society of Portrait Artists. The google search theory of notariety is completely unacceptable for any basis of importance. Go google Messina footwear, you will get nothing, go google Battistoni, you will bearly get anything too, yet I was able to finsd a link and even a reference to it in a well known movie. The very source that was also used in the article stresses how important the Messina footwear alteier is to Milan. Mctrain (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] There is No Rational Argument for Deletion

It is an excellent fashion related articel that talks about many valid sources of information, It is completely written and cited from the sources given, and it is an article that many people interested in fashion would get a lot out of.Mctrain (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete Looking at the 29 results from a google search under "Grace Talarico" was interesting, and there's a realtor in Chicago who, if not a fashion designer, is "the amazing home closer". Whether this is real or not real, it's not a well-constructed article, jumping back and forth between the person and her family, and J. Zangwell Gilbert. I'm wondering now about whether the article on Julian Z. Gilbert (5 ghits) shouldn't be nominated for a review as well. Mandsford (talk) 18:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • yeah, and go google Messina, which gets nothing as well as Caraceni and Battistoni, which would barely get anything too, and go read what Flusser says about those establishments and how important they were, are ,and continuwe to be- I love this "google as standard of importance", theory. Popularity and importance are two differnt things, and it was suppose to be an article talkning about her/her family's importance to Pucci's impact in Roman fashion during the 60's.Mctrain (talk) 19:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • By the way, her name is "Talarico di Capace", and not realted to any Talaricos- you would benifit from the article that talks about the difference between the two- further proof of the value of its existence. Mctrain (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Why are People so Mean Spirited and Quick to Destroy information is only for the good of everyone, the less you have access to , the less you will know about life- period.Mctrain (talk) 20:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I really had enough of this, because the basis of all of this is nothing more than some people's interest in hoaxes, and I don't have time to waste with that any more.Mctrain (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment I have no opinion on the AfD, but I find it personally offensive that the article creator got his children involved in this oh-so-important Internets debate. JuJube (talk) 20:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • They asked if they could post too, is a parent suppose to say no to that- how ridiculous.Mctrain (talk) 21:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. As an aside, I find there to often be a correlation between the number of comments by an article's creator and the lack of notability of its subject. Maxamegalon2000 00:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete, hoax, part of the whole Vitus Barbaro hoaxage from last year. Once again resolving to the Chicago area. What a surprise. Corvus cornixtalk 00:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

No matter what anyone says, no matter what anyone proves, no matter that the premise of this page is based on a lie(she is fully listed in two sources given), no matter even when evidence is given- hoax garbage starts all over again. There is not a single thing more that I can say that I haven't already said- and let's see if the blood thirsy mob chops the head off of this completely just article. I'll hope for the best"Mctrain (talk) 00:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC) Wow Hah. I just found this in looking through the history of this coordinated hoax: The current legitimate holder of the Albergo branch's titled names is Vitus Sebastian Barbaro (born on July 27, 1973). His father is Sebastiano (born on July 18, 1935). His mother is Baronessa Grazia Talarico di Capace (born on July 2, 1946).. So this whole article and all of the supposed family members, is just one more link in the ridiculous hoax. It makes my wonder why, if "Vitus Sebastian Barbaro" is really a famous Italian prince, this article doesn't mention him or his father? Corvus cornixtalk 01:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

65.141.156.175 (talk · contribs), one of the major contributors to this article, resolves to Chicago, the center of the whole Fenwick High School/Vitus Barbaro/Pugalist Club/Skull and Crescent hoax. Corvus cornixtalk 01:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh Wow e Wow What a great find- the case is cracked! I even told Deor that when I started editing this article, that I was interested in the current family and that I knew a little about them, but that I wanted to learn more about the current members. I also know that Vitus worked for the Art Institute of Chicago on the Bruce Goff Exhibition, that I wanted to add, but didn't because Deor said it would fuel hoax rumors, which are here anyways, and I can even cite him in the exhibition catalogue too with an ISBN number, and I also told Deor that Grace was linked to Lucien Ruolle previously, and I worked on the Thorp Academy article because Julian Gilbert was involved with teaching kids there too. You are the only one who want to believe that real people are a hoax. The only hoax is that stupid scared order skull BS where someone put his name into that. Everthing else about the guy and his family is real- and of course there is going to be other people out there writing about him and his family too- it is proof that they are significant, that is surprising to you and constitutes a hoax? I wrote about all of these articles at the same time: lucien ruolle and Grace TdC, and Thorp Academy, and Julian Gilbert etc. because the sources were simliar, and had overlap and because all of theses people and topics are interelated. I have also written about baseball, basketball and other sports at the same time too, because all of those topics are interelated. I have also written about fly fishing, creels, wicker, and bamboo at the same time too because all of those topics are interelated. Pretty logical isn't it, it makes pulling out sources from the library easier when you can use the same ones to write about many similar topics at the same time, but I guess logic here is not in high demand Mctrain (talk) 01:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


  • Delete as fundamentally unverifiable. Hoax or not is irrelevant, WP:V is the key here. Guy (Help!) 12:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
  • This woman is listed as well as her family in the sources given!!!!! Completely verifiable in the sources given!!!! And this topic is a topic that has been targeted unfairly by Deor from day one based on Deor's untruth at the top of this page. The House of Borghese page is sitting right now, for years, with no references, no citations, has persons of Rod Borghese and Justin listed as a notible person who is not even relatated to the family, and nothing is done about that. But this page and certain others are constantley attacked and scutinized, ENOUGH! This page is perfectly fine and has been unfairly targeted as well as others, such the Julian Gilbert page, that has even been targeted for its pictures, which have even been added by one of his own relatives. ENOUGH, of the stalking and trouble making and lies that have been occuring here. She is completely verifiable in the sources given! Deor started this page with an untruth. He never fully checked a single source, as he said he did, because if he had, she is FULLY listed in two of those sources given. So why should I tolerate all of the talk about a hoax, when it is not a hoax, or talk of being unverifiable, when it is completely verifiable, or talk of irrelevance, when it is completely relavent to the topics of: fashion, and Pucci , and Messina, and Battistoni, and Alaric, and nobility in general, and cinecitta, Gina Lollobridgida and the Roman film industry- it has information pertaining to all of these RELEVANT topics- I am sick of blood thirsty people that all they want to do is destroy, basing an argument on lies- when truth is glossed over, and countless other articles sitting with no sources or citations or even relevance is left alone. This is nothing more than Wikipedia sending an honest article to the gas chambers. And it is the principlae of it all that pisses me off more than anything- a person puts in hard work and time putting together a honest article, and this is how they are treated for it- not a thank you for giving additional knowledge, but rather destruction. I am sick and tired of that!Mctrain (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


This is very telling. Mctrain is behind all of the 65.xxx... anons who originate in Chicago, home of the real estate agent Grace Talarico, the non-notable school boy Vito Albergo aka Vitus Barbaro, and Fenwick High School. Corvus cornixtalk 17:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete This will be one for the books :| Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 17:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete Gas it! Gas that Julian Z. Gilbert one too! We don't need to glorify the likes of him Wikipedia.Cancanit (talk) 18:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC) — Cancanit (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Delete Oh how sweet it is! Say bye bye to this one too! — 65.141.156.67 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 20:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC).

      • Excuse me, This is Mctrain, and I did not write the stupid comments listed above. Why would I vote to destroy something that I am fighting to save. Someone else is posting with a 65 IP, or hacking and labeling with a 65 IP or something, because the two foolish comments above sure isn't me. I was told that a 65 IP is a general IP used for central time-zone services, but I have no clue- nor do I care. I also stand by my decision to no longer be editing on Wikipedia- someone left a message for me on my talk page to re-write the article and post it to be checked- why should I do that. I wrote a perfectly fine article- with perfectly fine sourced material that can all be checked. I will not do additional work based on the premise on a lie, or based on some false accusations of someone else' 65 IP's or whatever. I am Mctrain and no one else. So as I said before goodbye, and goodbye means goodbye- I do not put up with false accusations or stupidity, and if someone is playing games with 65IP's they can go to hell too, because it seems like they have caused enough damage around here.Mctrain (talk) 15:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
      • I also have one last thing to say. I just noticed that there is someone claiming to post from the Chicago Public Library on the O.A. Thorp Scholastic Acadmey talk page. That was not me, nor did I add that buglow source, but I just checked the book out at Barnes and Noble just now, and the source is legit, you can verify for yourself at the store, there is an old black and white photo of the school and talk about it's namesake Ole A Thorp- so that is an OK source that can stay, and that 65 poster seems to be legit too. But I suspect you have a hacker at play here for some time. I use a Midwest internet service that posts with a 65 IP- you should check into possible hacking situations- it seems like 65IP's all pertain to the Midwest- and someone must known that.Mctrain (talk) 16:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete full of unsourced statements, with no references to verify them. Only verifiable sources are for for statements not related to the topic the article tries to illustrate --Enric Naval (talk) 14:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.