Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Goulash Communism

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. -- Longhair 16:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goulash Communism

Besides its obvious brevity the article contains nothing but an amalgam of highly superficial catchwords without any explanative value whatsoever and displays a clearly non-neutral point of view.
Many of the common complaints regarding articles on topics concerning "Socialism" apply here:
1. No socialist country has ever proclaimed itself to be "communist" this being merely the final goal society strives to reach in the distant future.
2. "'Lighter' version of communism" is highly tendentious, implying that "communism" as such would be "hard" only to be a bit "alleviated" in its "later stages".
3. "Much diminished socialist propaganda" ("propaganda" here obviously but unduly used as a derogative term) is totally incorrect. As in every other socialist country the Marxist-Leninist ideology and the forms of its dissemination in Hungary underwent adaptations and modernisations, especially after 1956. But neverthelees it remained the official guiding thought and was propagated as such right until 1989.
4. The introduction of some market elements (combined with planning) as was the case in Hungary (but not only there !) is in no way incomaptible with a socialist economy. Therefore no "aknowledging of a deviation" would have been necessary.
This artificially magnified discussion of certain idiosyncratic features of the building of a socialist society in individual countries, for insthttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Goulash_Communism&action=edit Edit this pageance in Hungary, should at best be avoided altogether. And if this proves to unfeasible, in the case of Hungary we already have the "Happiest Barrack" article (also fatally flawed but still far better than this one) of which this article is basically a shallow and useless reduplication.
I therefore demand the deletion of the article on "Goulash communism" as quickly as possible.
--Elsmlie 08:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Its brevity may be due to its relative youth; it still has the "new article smell" on it. Fact is, the term is out there, and I'd like to see it explained better. I learned the term in high school history (although high school history tends to be a tad more simplistic than anything at the post-secondary level). I remember hearing the term as well on a TV documentary. I'd actually like to see the article fleshed out. It ranks up there with terms like "gunboat diplomacy" and "bamboo curtain" that people coin to describe a situation or concept that appears to be different from the norm. --SigPig 14:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Expand if possible see this diff, article was apparently created to fill a redlink someone else had left (with a misspelling). I notice there's no hu:gulyáskommunizmus article though. Phr (talk) 15:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I hope there will be some improvement as time goes on. Zello 17:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge (if really necessary) If you insist on keeping the term (which, I will repeat, may be widespread in American High School history lessons but still doesn't become any more correct or useful) merge this article with the "Happiest barrack" article and add the term "Goulash communism" as a second "catchword phrase" there. We do not need both articles.

--Elsmlie 16:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Thinking about it a second time, I believe that when merging the two articles, it would be even better to keep the heading "Goulash communism" and delete the "Happiest barrack" heading instead. The content of the "Happiest Barrack" article should then be moved under the "Goulash communism" heading and this term be added as a second catchword there (as proposed in my previous comment). Despite its flaws "Goulash communism" as a term is in itself less offensive than "Happiest barrack" and should therefore be used as their common heading. --Elsmlie 17:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep again, let's fix the problems addressed rather than delete the article. I've heard of Goulash communism, and it is most certainly a valid phrase AdamBiswanger1 18:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• OK, here's my proposal:
  

1. Repair the various problems in the article mentioned in my original deletion request. Since the article is not very long and it's been me who brought this all up I could do so, if you agree.

2. Sometime in the future, merge the article with the "Happiest barrack" article and use "Goulash communism" as their common heading.

What do you think ? --Elsmlie 18:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy keep. I have now fundamentally revised the article conforming to the points raised above. I hope my revision will find your approval and we can close the discussion. --Elsmlie 19:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - This is a common used expression for the 1963(?amnesty)-1989 period in Hungary. kelenbp 21:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge - Merge the Happiest Barrack into this one, since "Goulash Communism" seems to be the more common term. I created the article out of "self interest", wanting to learn more about the subject. I am pleasantly surprised of the response, so far. I would like to see/add references to more or less similar situations, like Tito's Yugoslavia or present day China. Barabum 22:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep (or Merge and keep a redirect); the term is clearly a notable one (see the Google test). Problems with the content should be solved by editing, not deletion. KissL 10:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• I think the original problems have already been solved since I have fundamentally revised the article yesterday. I therefore repeat my proposal to close the discussion. Merging and redirecting can be done later. --Elsmlie 10:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• I suggest merging and redirecting sooner, rather than later, to avoid duplicate work.Barabum 14:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
• Definitely Keep. This a a normal, very frequent historical term now in all relevant European languages. Juro 22:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.