Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Give Up the Ghost
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Arkyan • (talk) 20:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Give Up the Ghost
Article on this obsolete short-lived band fails WP:MUSIC; absolutely no WP:RS report on this band; only claim to notability is two records on small independent label which, by itself, does not establish notability. THF 12:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - Passes WP:MUSIC criteria #4 as they've had 2 albums released on Equal Vision Records (home of Coheed and Cambria and Circa Survive amongst others), a notable indie record label - this is already verified in the article, and "poor article" is not a good reason for deletion. Also in the article is the fact that several members went onto several other notable bands (WP:MUSIC criteria #5). Also worth mentioning that singer Wes Eisold is also credited on Fall Out Boy records over lyrics shared with American Nightmare/Give Up The Ghost[1][2] - although this is not mentioned in the article yet as I haven't got around to it. Calling 5 years "short-lived" is also a tad misleading. And the fact the band is obsolete is irrelevant, since notability is generally permanent -Halo 13:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Wes Eisold isn't notable, either. Meeting two of the minor eleven criteria in WP:MUSIC doesn't mean one meets notability, it just makes it more likely that one meets the central criteria standard of It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.—which this band does not meet. The fact that the band is obsolete just means that it isn't notable yet and it isn't getting any more notable. -- THF 13:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: Meeting several of the WP:MUSIC criteria make[s] it very likely that sufficient reliable information is available about a given group or individual musician. If you think that WP:MUSIC uses poor criteria then that's something else entirely, and this isn't the time nor place to take that up as it is an extremely well established notability guideline. For the record, they also did a UK tour so passes Criteria #2[3]. If you think the article is poor and needs sources, surely the logical thing is to try and improve it rather than trying to delete it? -Halo 13:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Halo, instead of bickering with me and insisting that reliable sources exist, why don't you improve the article, and I'll withdraw the Afd? I think the article can't be improved because the band isn't notable; I added a tag indicating the article needed improvement, and the only improvements band supporters tried was to remove the tag repeatedly, indicating they thought the article was as good as it was going to get. -- THF 13:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't had chance, although I did add a source earlier. But I do know the AFD process here having saved several articles from incorrect deletion (eg. Nightmare of You, Hellogoodbye), pretty much know WP:MUSIC inside-out by now and know the loops you have to jump through at WP:DRV if an article does get deleted. For the record, I'm not a fan of the band at all and I'm not a "band supporter" in the least and have no idea how you made that massive presumption. I've visited the page exactly 3 times and never heard a single song they play, but I do know about the band by reputation, the "scene" they were involved with and know it's notable there, as well as hearing about the court case, and dragged up two or three sources and reasons, as per Wikipedia policy, in the space of 15 minutes in order to try and save this from deletion. -Halo 14:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Halo, instead of bickering with me and insisting that reliable sources exist, why don't you improve the article, and I'll withdraw the Afd? I think the article can't be improved because the band isn't notable; I added a tag indicating the article needed improvement, and the only improvements band supporters tried was to remove the tag repeatedly, indicating they thought the article was as good as it was going to get. -- THF 13:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: Meeting several of the WP:MUSIC criteria make[s] it very likely that sufficient reliable information is available about a given group or individual musician. If you think that WP:MUSIC uses poor criteria then that's something else entirely, and this isn't the time nor place to take that up as it is an extremely well established notability guideline. For the record, they also did a UK tour so passes Criteria #2[3]. If you think the article is poor and needs sources, surely the logical thing is to try and improve it rather than trying to delete it? -Halo 13:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- The links about Wes Eisold and Fallout Boy shows that there was a plagiarism accusation, not that the band member worked with Fall Out Boy. It belongs in the Fall Out Boy article to the extent it belongs on Wikipedia at all. -- THF 13:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry? Are you reading the same link I am? It's the first sentence! "SOUTH Philly's Wesley Eisold is credited as co-writer on three songs on Fall Out Boy's new record "Infinity on High."" - I'm beginning to wonder if your nomination was in good faith if you can't even read the first sentence of a link provided to you?!? -Halo 14:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- "Credited with" is not the same as "worked with". Again, the credit apparently resulted from a plagiarism accusation. Did you read the whole piece? We're told Eisold never gave permission for his lyrics to be used -- THF 14:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry? Are you reading the same link I am? It's the first sentence! "SOUTH Philly's Wesley Eisold is credited as co-writer on three songs on Fall Out Boy's new record "Infinity on High."" - I'm beginning to wonder if your nomination was in good faith if you can't even read the first sentence of a link provided to you?!? -Halo 14:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. Notable band, just needs more references. I don't edit music articles all that often so its taking me a while to sift through sources to work out which are reliable sources, but I've added two more refs as a start. Oldelpaso 16:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Keep- appears to meet WP:MUSIC- would agree it needs more refs Thunderwing 18:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Strong keep - That an article lacks references and/or is poorly written is no proof that the object of the article is non-notable, it just needs a lot of more work. They were highly influencial for their time. --x-Flare-x{Talk) 19:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
