Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gilberto Silva goals

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gilberto Silva goals

Gilberto Silva goals (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete Does Wikipedia need an article merely listing the goals scored by a not-especially high-scoring player? Daemonic Kangaroo 05:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment i would presume you saw the talkpage of the article and disagreed with the reasons stated there. also, if this article is indeed deleted it would merely be transposed back to where it once belong, the GS article itself. a separate page was created to deal with the length/layout issues of the GS article. Chensiyuan 05:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes - I did read the talk page, but I am not convinced by the arguments. I feel this needs to be considered by the wider WP community. If they're happy to keep it, then so be it. Daemonic Kangaroo 05:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of soccer statistics. Nor is Wikipedia a directory of links to the locations and dates in which a soccer player scores a goal, especially when there's essentially only one line of actual context.--TBCΦtalk? 05:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    • the link you directed me to does not convincingly preclude the existence of this page. Chensiyuan 06:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
      • In response to the the reasonings listed in the talk:
        • This is the most comprehensive football|soccer player's article on Wikipedia, and just because Pele's article is not so comprehensive, it shouldn't mean that others are limited to its size. It seems like an unnecessary bottleneck. It doesn't matter how "comprehensive" the derivative article is, if it doesn't pass WP:NOT, than it doesn't deserve a seperate article.
        • The goals which Gilberto have scored are encyclopaedic information And why? Please explain.
        • The information which is listed on Gilberto Silva goals was listed on his main article (Gilberto Silva) for a number of months, proving it is indeed fit for Wikipedia, and... Though an article's subject might be notable, by no means does it make every section of said article notable enough to merit an individual article as well.
        • It was only moved to a separate page because it was too chunky for its parent page. If the goals page is deleted, the information will only be pasted back onto the main article; I feel that would be less tidy/organized that it having its own page. At 43.5 kb, this page is defanitly not "chunky", especially compared to articles such as the United States, which is currently at 118.9kB, or David Beckham, who's article is currently at 56kB, even without any of the statistics like those that this article has.
        • The reason Pele doesn't have his own goal page (or table) is due to the sheer number of goals that he has scored. Some of the details of the goals are probably lost to history. Gilberto will only ever score about 50 goals, and they are all fairly recent, so his page can exist quite easily. The information is readily available. This is not to say that just the fact that Gilberto has scored LESS goals than most allows him to have his own goal page. Quite the opposite. There is even more reason that Pele should have his own page; the only reason that he doesn't though, is that nobody is willing (or able?) to compile a list of his many hundreds of career goals. This is a first step to more comprehensive soccer player articles; it shows editors a new added level of useful detail which can be attained. It doesn't matter whether Pele does or doesn't have a goal page. None of these articles should have a seperate goal page, as Wikipedia is not a directory of links to the locations and dates of when a soccer player scores a goal.
        • Maybe Gilberto's goal page will lead to Pele (and other notable footballers) having their own statistics/goal pages. Maybe not. But the fact that no other editors have taken the time to compile such lists which require their own pages, surely does not mean that those editors which have, cannot have their pages exist. See my comment below.
        • Some Basketball and American Football players do have their own 'statistics' pages. See Career achievements of Dwyane Wade or Career achievements of Michael Jordan. True, this page isn't on the same scale as said career achievements pages, but the fact that Gilberto is so much less famous means his small goals page is correct to scale.I usually dislike citing essays, but note please note that inclusion is not an indicator of notability. Due to Wikipedia's nature of being an "encyclopedia that everyone can edit", many articles that violate Wikipedia's policies and guidelines exist, as there's nothing stopping them from creating the article.--TBCΦtalk? 07:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
          • I've also clarified my original objection.--TBCΦtalk? 07:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Per WP:NOT Matthew_hk tc 06:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Where in NOT please. Manderiko 06:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per talk. Chensiyuan 06:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - far too detailed. A list of every goal someone has ever scored? If there's a textbook example of "cruft", this may well be it. A season-by-season tally of appearances and goals on the individual player article should suffice. - fchd 06:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Original counter-arguments outweigh weak objections. Manderiko 06:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I've extended and clarified my objections. I hope that helps.--TBCΦtalk? 07:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Thank you for bothering to explain. Chensiyuan 07:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete A list of goals scored by a soccer player? How does thet not fail WP:NOT? TJ Spyke 07:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per fchd. Punkmorten 08:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:NOT. Since when has goals scored by a soccer player deserve an article? --KZ Talk • Vandal • Contrib 08:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude 08:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Completely unnecessary detail for an encylopedia, more suited for a sports almanac, which wikipedia is not. I don't like the precedent that would lead to full lists of goals for every football player ever. Robotforaday 08:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment The intro states This page lists the details of goals scored by Brazilian football player Gilberto Silva giving the impression that it will be detailing all his career goals but that isn't the case, it details only the goals he has scored for Arsenal and Brazil and overlooks his other clubs, so at the very least (unless those details were added) it would need to be re-titled to something catchy like List of goals scored by Gilberto Silva for Arsenal and Brazil..... ChrisTheDude 09:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Wikipedia is not a list of everything. Good grief, if we do this for every well known footballer, where will it end? This level of informations is suitable for a Gilberto Silva fansite but not for an encyclopaedia. Jules 10:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak delete I don't think this level of detail is appropriate. Qwghlm 10:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - Wikipedia is not an indiscrimate collection of informaition. HornetMike 10:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:NOT an indiscrimate collection of informaition. And Wikipedia is not ESPN either. – Elisson • T • C • 13:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - per WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Moreschi Request a recording? 13:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - why not just include a link to his entry on Soccerbase instead? EliminatorJR Talk 14:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per above. Wikipedia might not be paper, but it's not wastepaper, and I agree that this is information far more suited to a Gilberto Silva fansite. I'm also completely unconvinced as to how the career achievements of certain superstars equate to this listing. Michael Jordan's career achievements do not include an indiscriminate list of every basket he's ever scored, no matter how inconsequential. RGTraynor 15:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Edison 16:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete' - this goes well beyond providing encyclopedic statistics for a footballer, and into excessive trivia. Also, do not merge back to the main article.--Whpq 16:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Kurt000 18:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom, and the fact that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. --Angelo 12:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak delete. As the article currently stands I don't think it's particularly noteworthy. The most interesting notes about his goals should be included within the prose about his career (e.g. scoring the first goal at the Emirates). The complete tables are overkill though. aLii 12:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shunsuke Nakamura's Goals in 1998 season and other similar discussions. Neier 02:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh my, that is complete overkill... Robotforaday 10:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Without merging. That table on Nakamura's page looks really silly and is clearly far too much detail for WP ChrisTheDude 07:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.