Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gibbs High School

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Majorly (o rly?) 16:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gibbs High School

Speedy deletion overturned on WP:DRV and brought here for a full discussion. My opinion is below. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep or as second choice merge with the school district. As high school articles go, this one has a reasonably well developed history and alumni section but the sourcing is not entirely adequate as of today. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Why bring it to AFD if you don't really want to delete it? --BigDT 16:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Because one DRV opinion said explicitly overturn and list and the other said overturn and optionally list, so it is responsible to list it? Is there some harm in gaining community consensus to keep? I don't see any danger of any article with the phrase "High School" in it being eradicated. GassyGuy 18:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep — Same reasons as for the previous hundred High School article AfDs. — RJH (talk) 21:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep — The article may need to be improved but there is no valid reason to delete it Morthanley 23:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • keep per all aboveOo7565 05:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. No notability. Simply existing and being a school that does its job is not enough: there has to be something that makes it stand out from its peers. The article doesn't say what that is. WMMartin 17:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
    • This was the first black school in Saint Petersburg for blacks, but to know that you would have had to read the article... Morthanley 19:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
      • The first black school for blacks? Which was the first black school for whites? Nonsense. Delete. Soltak | Talk 20:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
        • The first school in St. Pete that allowed black students to enroll. It says a lot about you when you say that is not notable Morthanley 22:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Delete Page is and has always been a copyvio from [2]. No prejudice against creation of a sourced, non-copyvio version. Shimeru 17:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
    • See my comments below, it appears that the information was copied from Wikipedia, not vice-versa. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Stricken, see discussion below. Shimeru 09:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, but improve Article is more interesting and informative than the typical high school article, and the school's status as the first high school for blacks adds to its notability. It's not very well organized and written, and it needs sourcing. I don't know if it is possible to tell whether the content in the article appeared first in publicschoolreview or here, since both sites accept user contributions (the same person may have contributed to both sites). However, it should not be hard to improve upon the current article. I found the school's own website and added a link to it, along with an interesting factoid that I picked up during the couple of minutes I spent investigating the school. --orlady 19:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Added comment: Don't high schools generally qualify as "notable" due to their importance in the local context?--orlady 14:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Another added comment (related to allegations of copyright violation): Earlier I said "I don't know if it is possible to tell whether the content in the article appeared first in publicschoolreview or here". Having studied the page history, I now believe that it is publicschoolreview (which accepts user conributions) that is using content from Wikipedia, specifically the Revision as of 05:05, 30 November 2006 by SmackBot and the Revision as of 21:05, 15 November 2006 by 66.194.104.5. The Wikipedia article includes contributions from and rewrites by various different registered and unregistered users, starting in September 2006. I believe these November versions are the only ones that have the same wording as the publicschoolreview page. In particular, notice the Notable alumni discussion, where the writeup about Michelle Dowdy has changed several times (the language in the two cited November versions was different from earlier versions and was changed again on December 14), and where Jeffrey Lacey was to added the Wikipedia article on December 3 (Lacey does not appear in the publicschoolreview page). Surely Wikipedia doesn't delete articles for copyvio because another website copied from Wikipedia without attribution.--orlady 04:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as it is a high school, and remove any copyvios. Cloachland 03:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete as copyvio (so tagged). If the illegal text was excised the article would essentially no exist. If an article on this subject is wanted it should be written from scratch. Eluchil404 09:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I removed the speedy delete tag from the article in favor of continuing this discussion.--orlady 15:01, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there's not much to discuss, unless someone can determine when the text was added to the above website -- we could then tell whether it was there first, or here. Personally, I was going to wait until the AfD closed and then report it as a possible copyvio for investigation (in this case, that would involve blanking the page, since all versions include the potential copyvio text, but blanking while an AfD is ongoing is not optimal). I'm not sure whether it meets G12 -- the site doesn't claim ownership of user-submitted content, so it doesn't fall under the site's copyright; it could still be a copyvio (the original author would retain the rights, if it were submitted there before here), but I'm not sure it's "blatant." I don't see any means of determining when the text was added to that website, though, short of contacting their agent for claims, and that's a step I'm a bit hesitant to take as an individual editor. Shimeru 04:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the speedy deletion tag, it appears that publicschoolreview.com copied their info from Wikipedia, not vice-versa. Interestingly, the archive.org snapshot of this school profile from February 2006 contains none of these details, and as you mentioned, they allow user submitted content. I have submitted an email to the operators of publicschoolreview requesting that they link back to our edit history for GFDL purposes. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that proves anything, since our article only dates to April 2006. It's still possible that the text was added to their site between February and April, and then copied here. Shimeru 06:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The proof is in our edit history. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 07:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Mm, no. Evidence is in our edit history. It seems likely, though, and applying Occam's razor, I've stricken my !vote. I imagine the response to the email will provide the final proof. Shimeru 09:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.