Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Geoffrey Giuliano

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep after what appears to be a complete rewrite of the article, with sources cited. Sandstein 22:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geoffrey Giuliano

Geoffrey Giuliano (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

I am not sure about this one. Definitely it has to be heavily edited, as it reads like a cross between a CV and a PR sheet (but this is not a reason to delete). It lacks any reference but personal websites of the subject (but this is not a reason to delete). Somebody regularly patrols the article, removing NPOV or OR tags and deleting other people's remarks in Talk (but this is not a reason to delete). I don't feel as this person might be actually notable, even if what the article says is mostly true (but this is not a reason to delete). So I'd like other people to have a look into it. Goochelaar 08:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup - the article is a terrible mess, but a cursory google search confirms his notability. It does look an awful lot like he wrote this article, though.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 09:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• A REPUTABLE ARTIST UNDER ATTACK Geoffrey Giuliano is the premere rock historian and writer of his time. The controversy here is simply a personal attack on this noted author, actor and syndicated radio host from a fringe group of Hare Krishna's who have been dogging Giuliano for years ever since he renounced their particular form of religious fervor some ten years ago. They have put up a very, very libelious website and now are attacking this Wikipedia entry to try and further disdcredit Giuliano. Google this man and you will see he has a long career in the media and is certainly most notable for his dozens of books etc. Please see through this defamation. Researching Mr. Giuliano is VERY VERY easy. While some may not like what he has had to say in the media for almost thirty years he is indeed very accomplished and continues his work internationally.

Please avoid melodramatic attacks on the nominator just because you disagree.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 16:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup - Researching Mr Guliano is indeed easy and he has written enough books for recognised publishers as well as acchived a slate of notability/notoriety to merit an entry here. The real problem that appears form the arricle history an also from above comment is how to convert the current favorable representation into an encylopedic article. Tikiwont 13:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Published and bunch of stuff through random house. I would advise the above poster with the insanly long "vote" to sogn their posts. If you don't you vote may be disregarded.--Tainter 14:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Keep, conditional on somebody willing to clean up that mess and properly source and reference the article Alf photoman 15:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete I have done a quick rewrite to remove the horrible POV & other stuff which leaves it as a neutral stub for further contributions. In my view, however, subject fails notability standard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eusebeus (talk • contribs) 17:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC).
• Delete pending references and more info As of this moment the article has no independent published references and is one sentence long. Delete unless the article can be expanded and independent published references provided. Dugwiki 22:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Not only is Giuliano a very well known author but he is also a noted film actor currently filming three major motion pictures in large roles in Asia (Bangkok Adrenaline, Cargo and Slumberland). The sources WERE all there with live links to various subjects within the article but were vandalized about two months ago and deleted. Please check the history well and you will see this is indeed true. Why the controversy regarding this very well know well published American author? I believe the post concerning defamation posted above to be correct. Giuliano's thirty something books are well documented and available on amazon.com and every other major book selling operation globally as are his nearly 100 audio books published by the likes of Random House. Please consider WHY this strong attack on a well known artist! There are people who clearly do not like what he has written and vare seeking to erase his profound literary contributions due to their personal bias and this is just not right. I also do not see how this article is not well written. I have spent some five hours researching the content and it is indeed accurate.124.120.182.79 23:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC) Freethought Joe

So if the article's sources were deleted by a vandal, then simply revert them and we'll take a look. Meanwhile the article still has no sources as of this moment. Dugwiki 17:06, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete The comments above about the importance of the "very well known author" were once again made by Giuliano himself, anonymously. He lives in Thailand, and it came from that country. Plus, it's written in the same dumb style he writes everything, just read it and compare, 'cause it's as clear as day. He's abused wiki too much, it's gettin' ridiculous! Oh, and by the way, Give Peace a Chance!--Lennon's Ghost
• Keep The comments refered to above as coming from Giuliano were made by myself, a nearly twenty year reader of his many fine books. While I have heard he has made some films here in Thailand I can assure you I have NEVER met him and that the thoughts herein were, and are, my own. There are MANY folksd here in Thailand Bwana! Besides, he IS a highly notable author. That is a matter of record. What is all the fuss about, if indeed, it is not simple character assination?124.120.185.95 11:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC) Freethought Joe From Kokomo
• Keep. Amazon lists several books of his ([1]), so he's notable, but article needs heavy cleanup. The comments above suggest to me that Giuliano or one of his partisans will relentlessly patrol the article to attempt to ensure that it violates WP:NPOV, WP:CITE, and any other policies found inconvenient to the goal of promoting Giuliano. Per nom, however, that's not a reason to delete. JamesMLane t c 11:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Definitely. I'd vote to keep a trimmed, referenced, NPOV version of the article. Is there a way to ensure that it remains so, without counter-patrolling it (one has better things to do)? JamesMLane's editing has lasted all of two hours... --Goochelaar 13:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Look this guy HAS made these films etc so why this hatchet job? Isn't the best thing to use the article as it is (informitive, accurate and well written) and just take the time to source it out? Besides the VOTES are HEAVILY in his favor!!!124.120.182.176 20:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Freeflow Joe

Of course, voting several times doesn't hurt, does it? --Goochelaar 21:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Ditto! You obviously got a real problem with this man and your bias is showing. Giuliano fans GLOBALLY are being notified and they are determined to prevail as his works both important to music history and also his readers. And so it will go 24/7 if needs be! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.120.182.176 (talk) 21:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Boy, this guy keeps using different alias to defend himself!? Finally resorting to intimidation and threats (Not Wiki style). This should cement his notability, I mean, even Hitler has a Wiki page.---just passing

DELETE?? NOTE: I see Goochelaar has no problem with subject. It is not bias. He wants references. It is Wiki LAW. No references, NO article. It's Wiki way, or the highway. Can't just have PR sheets as articles...it's NOT Wiki!!!

124.120.182.176, you are not supposed to delete remarks by people taking part in the debate, as you did with the previous one. --Goochelaar 09:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

To repeat a liable IS a liable and Kevin Hanley and Eye were very sucessfully sued for the publication of the above article. removing actionable material I am sure is VERY MUCH "Wiki". Thus I will do so forthwith. Please see article below:

http://www.eyeweekly.com/eye/issue/issue_06.29.00/news/letters.php124.120.182.176 10:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC) Joe

Joe, you remind me of Nixon. The link you gave doesn't lead to anything referring to a lawsuit against the EYE or its writers, it leads to a letter to the editor that was printed in the EYE. It is interesting, though--the letter is complaining about an article they had just printed about Giuliano, and it was written by a woman who worked for him as a researcher on several of his books. I don't think the EYE was too afraid of a lawsuit about the article, though, 'cause they added a sarcastic heading to her letter. Hmmm, someone who depends on ya for her bread and butter writing a letter to the editor in your favor--is that anything like "Guiliano fans GLOBALLY are being notified"? Gimme Some Truth!--Lennon's Ghost

I see the article has been reduced to one sentence. But still those claims, although provable by a www search, are not properly referenced here. That is the rule...references must be given. Please list at least several references that are neutral 3rd party published reviews or articles, and list your published books with ISBN# in Wiki reference format. Please listen to Goochelaar, who is trying to help.---2 cents

ALSO, even BAD articles, if properly referenced, can prove notability.---2 cents

• Keep, dig up sources, and wikify. As a polite reminder, it is a good idea to Google something you are not sure about the notability of. I'd not heard the name before, but I doubt any of you have not heard the name Ronald McDonald. I'll volunteer to dig up references for this article if we decide to keep it. I warn, however, that my transcription of the information might get sloppy, so we will need people to proofread the additions and copyedit the article as it grows. Fact is, this guy is notable. V-Man737 09:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

  Meanwhile, back at the ranch: here is a Google search for the gentleman in question. I've stuck a few of those references in the article and tried to represent them as well as I could, but there are thousands of other important facts yet to be extracted from the sources. I invite everyone to examine them and expand the article; meanwhile, it's my bedtime. V-Man737 09:56, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

NEEDS LIST OF PUBLISHED BOOKS - A WRITER. IF FAMOUS OR INFAMOUS, IS NOTABLE. THIS SUBJECT IS CLEARLY NOTABLE. WHAT IS NEEDED (AT LEAST) IS A LIST OF PRIMARY BOOKS WITH BOOK NAME, ISBN, PUBLISHER, YEAR, BY THIS AUTHOR. IT WOULD BE EASIEST FOR AUTHOR TO PROVIDE THIS INFO AND PUT INTO WIKIPEDIA STYLE. THE AUTHOR CAN FIGURE OUT WIKIPEDIA "BOOK REFERENCE" CODING SYSTEM. EXAMPLE: * Book name. (author) Last name, First name. 19??. (ISBN 1-00000000000). THE SUBJECT KNOWS BEST WHAT BOOKS HE'S HAD PUBLISHED SO BEST IF SUBJECT DOES ALL THIS WORK.

• Comments. Much of the above discussion should have been posted to the article's talk page, not here. Relevant to the notability aspect of the deletion debate is the exchange in Eye Weekly. Giuliano's anon partisan deleted the link on this page to the unflattering article, but the Eye Weekly article does serve to show notability and argue against deletion. Link: [2] Although the anon asserts there was a successful lawsuit, I find no online evidence of any such thing. (My search: [3]) As Lennon's Ghost noted, the link provided by the anon is only to a letter to the editor, which disagreed with the Hainey review. Finally, I don't agree with the above anonymous comment (the one in all caps) inviting Giuliano to edit the article about himself. Wikipedia frowns on that practice. JamesMLane t c 19:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

CHANGING MY VOTE FROM "DELETE" TO "KEEP OFF THE GRASS": I'm persuaded now by all the good discussion on here that Giuliano IS notable (in his own lovable sod way)and that "we can work it out." But--I'm concerned about the son of Tricky Dicky who keeps changin' things back and deletin'. While I'm changin' my vote, I think the discussion should remain open for a while, 'cause the anonymous block and lots of vigilance and mannin' the barricades is gonna be needed to keep the blue meanies away while the evolution revolution of this entry goes down! POWER TO THE PEOPLE, RIGHT ON!--Lennon's Ghost — Lennonsghost (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. .THE INFORMATION NOW IS WRONG. HIS WIFE IS VRNDA DEVI NOT VRINDA RANI. HE DID NOT POSE AS RONALD HE "PLAYED" RONALD. NOR WAS HE THE SECOND RONALD!!! LOOK YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE VERSION WE FEEL SHOULD BE UP AND ARE FIGHTING FOR BUT IT IS 100% ACCURATE. EVERY NAME IS CORRECT. TRUE DATES. ALL OF IT. NOW IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.

HE DID NOT GRADUATE IN 1976 NOR ARE HIS CHILDREN HINDU!!! HE HAS FIVE CHILDREN NOT FOUR. YOU ARE TAKING THINGS FROM THE INTERNET WHICH ARE THEMSELVES WRONG AND REPEATING THE MISTAKES. THIS IS A BETTER WAY TO GO??? USE THE OLD VERSION AS YOUR STRUCTURE FOR THE NEW ONE. GIULIANO DID SUE AND WIN AGAINST EYE MAGAZINE WHETHER YOU CAN FIND IT OR NOT. YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THIS MANS LIFE AND WORK. THE STUB SAYS HE'S AN ACTOR BUT WHILE THE OLD VERSION IS CORRECT HERE YOU MAKE NO MENTION OF IT. GIULIANO'S WEBSITE IS THE BEST SOURCE. GO TO THE AUTHOR PAGE AND ALL HIS SOURCED REVIEWS ARE THERE WITH DATES ETC. GIULIANO I AM SURE WILL TAKE ACTION WHEN HE SEES THIS. WHO WOULD NOT AS IT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT. YOU SAY YOU WANT TRUTH WELL GIULIANO'S WEBSITE HAS TONS OF HARD SOURCING. ALSO WHY THIS OBSESSION WITH THE EYE ARTICLE ... GIULIANO HAS DOZENS OF ARTICLES ABOUT HIM ON HIS SITE INCLUDING THE LONDON TIMES!!! YOU ARE SCREWING THIS UP. ITS ALL WRONG. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

THIS ARTICLE IS 10000000000% FACTUALLY CORRECT HERE IT IS PLEASE USE IT: Geoffrey Giuliano (born September 11, 1953 in Rochester, New York) is a American writer of dozens of commercially published, best selling books translated into some sixteen languages over twenty five years. He is also a noted film actor and syndicated radio show host. Raised in Albion and Olcott Beach, New York, Giuliano was the youngest of five children. He and his mother, Myrna Oneita Juliano, moved to Tampa, Florida at the age of twelve where he first became interested in acting, Vedic philosophy and fine art seriography as a young man. Geoffrey became enamored of the emerging hippie movement in 1967 and went through that door taking with him as he puts it, "All the very best of what my generation was about. The drugs I left behind early on and never went back, although LSD, in particular, was an important portal for me. It opened me up in many beautiful ways. Most importantly, pointing me eastward in the direction of disciplined yoga, Vedic philosophy, vegetarianism, a life free of addictions and much more. That was the point in which my adult values were really formed. I thank God everyday for India and everything I have known and seen because of Her. America gave me birth, but India made my bones." Giuliano attended Hillsborough Community College (HCC) and in the mid 1970s, SUNY Brockport (where he was later named one of the top fifty students of all time) near his hometown of Rochester. In August 1976 he married college sweetheart Brenda Lee Black (later author/animal rights activist, Vrnda Devi) and together they had four children, Sesa Nichole, Devin Leigh, Avalon Oneita and India Skye. He also has a young son from another relationship, Tulsi Mala Kuptsov born in Bangkok in mid July 2003. In the late 1990's Giuliano founded the umbrella charity, SRI/The Spiritual Realization Institute (and later Sri Radhe International Inc.) which manifested as a free veggie food pantry (Dasa Food For All) in Lockport, New York, as well as an animal sanctuary, Devotional Yoga center, spiritual retreat and not-for-profit publishing house. In 2000 he also founded a charity in aid of the abused women of Radha Kund, North India called The Vrndavana Widows & Children's Trust which feeds, clothes and provides acute medical care for the holy residents of this sacred village. Giuliano has written some 36 critically acclaimed, scholarly, internationally bestselling, though often controversial, biographies on such luminaries as John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Brian Jones, Pete Townshend and several audio works (100 to date) on subjects as diverse as Frank Sinatra as well as archival interviews with survivors of the Titanic entitled, "That Fateful Night: True Stories of Titanic Survivors In Their Own Words." Giuliano has also written two London Sunday Times bestselling biographies, "Dark Horse: The Secret Life of George Harrison" and "Blackbird: The Life And Times Of Paul McCartney." Along the way, he has collaborated with such pop luminaries as Cream/Blind Faith drummer Ginger Baker, Pete Townshend, Dr. Timothy Leary, Richie Havens, Ben E. King, John Lennon's sister Julia Baird, 'Legs' Larry Smith, and British BBC TV presenter Gloria Hunniford, among many others. In late 1998, Random House Audio asked Giuliano to form a company for them called Tribute Audio, which produced a line of celebrity, interview laced, original spoken word CDs, all written, produced and narrated by the author. He worked in that capacity for some five years. In 2003, Giuliano founded a successful publishing house, SRI Books, as a resource for publishing his more esoteric literary works. On November 19, 2005, a film, "Stoned: The Wild & Wicked World of Brian Jones," based on his bestselling book for Virgin in the UK, "Paint It Black: The Murder of Brian Jones" premered in London. The movie was directed by Stephen Woolley and co-produced by Nik Powell, the producing team behind such films as "Mona Lisa," "Interview with the Vampire" and "The Crying Game." At the Bangkok Film Festival in February 2006 Woolley and Giuliano fell out over what Giuliano felt was, "A thoroughly botched adaptation of my book as well as obvious ommissions in reference to my credit in the making of this horrific, pretentious and historically inaccurate film. It is a load of self interested garbage. If Woolley spent ten years of his life making this, he wasted the better part of his professional life for nothing!" As a singer songwriter Giuliano has written for and/or recorded with George Harrison, Richie Havens, Ben E. King, Steve Holly, Ginger Baker, Denny Laine, and 'Legs' Larry Smith [ex-Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band]. His has released two CDs, "Chocolate Wings" (2001) and the haunting Indo fusion work, "God Dwells Within" (2006). Giuliano has been a sterling (and much lauded) advocate for animal rights since the early 1980's for his very public renunciation of the fast-food giant McDonald's after portraying their promotional personality, Ronald McDonald, for some two years in Toronto, Canada. Shocked at the hypocrisy he found within the company's mammoth corporate structure Giuliano testified for the prosecution in a famed 1991 London court case known as McLibel. He has been very public on his views as an ethical lacto vegetarian ever since. In an interview he gave in London some years later, Geoffrey summed up his bad experience playing Ronald north of the border. "There's no question that I was manipulating these children. I was a highly paid, highly trained, highly polished actor. Every show was a performance and I had a mandate to get that message out there, and yeah, it was not too hard - anybody can manipulate a child. I just went home one night, and I said, 'I cannot do this, I can't live with myself if I continue to do this.' Giuliano also played the Marvelous Magical Burger King for the Burger King Corporation doing shows and other appearances throughout New England. The seasoned author /actor has spoken widely regarding his turbulent term as the McDonald's clown and the shadowy ethical implications of factory farming and animal rights. Giuliano has been an ardent vegetarian abstaining from meat, fish or eggs since 1970. Giuliano has resided primarily in Southeast Asia since 2000 with his two grandchildren, Kashi and Varsana Jones and his filmmaker daughter, Avalon Giuliano, with whom he co-authored several books and DVD documentaries ["The Beatles Scrapbook" and "John Lennon: Working Class Hero" - KRB Music]. Their latest tome, "Revolver: The Secret History Of The Beatles," was published by Blake Publishing of London in mid 2006. Giuliano is a thirty five year student of Vedic philosophy from the Gaudiya Vaishnava school of Hinduism (Bhakti, or Devotional Yoga) under the noted Bengali master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Giuliano was also co-author of a particularly stirring work on ethical vegetarianism with his wife, Vrnda Devi, entitled "Compassionate Cuisine," published by SRI Books in 2003. In recent years Geoffrey has returned to his early career as an in demand character actor, recently co-starring in the Hallmark Channel mini-series, "Jules Verne's The Mysterious Island" as Captain Tweezer Lee with Patrick Stewart and former British actor/soccer star Vinnie Jones. In August 2006 he was cast in a French film entitled "Cargo" which was filmed in Bangkok. In September he signed to co-star in an action adventure film (also in Thailand) entitled "The Devil's Playground." In late 2005 Giuliano was hired by American radio syndicator (KGB) to host a series of two hour radio shows, "Geoffrey Giuliano's Roots Of Rock". He has also worked in the theatre at various times over many years. He has performed voiceover narrations for such clients as McDonald's and Burger King. Giuliano has also worked tirelessly against the perils of crack cocaine addiction having been personally touched by the issue when several young people close to him became addicted.

THIS AINT OVER. IT WILL BE RESOLVED WITH TRUTH AND ACCURACY.

PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF REGARDING THE USE OF ALL CAPS ON THE INTERNET. IT IS CONSIDERED THE SAME AS SHOUTING. THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO SHOUT; MOSTLY A DAY CARE CENTER IS THE PLACE FOR THAT. Having said (shouted?) that, I thank you for your enthusiasm and invite you to acquaint yourself with the guidelines concerning reliable sources that are the driving factor behind this bit of info about our buddy Geoff. Perhaps the wording of "posing" or "playing" as Ronald McDonald might for the moment not quite sound all right to you, but please note what the source is — an interview with Giuliano, where he makes these statements himself. The sentence may be reworded to better fit what the reference says, but by no means should you form it to what you personally understand about him. Doing that is called original research and is not a basis for reliable information. The article you have posted here, having no sources, is original research until you can provide sources that back up the claims made therein. Being ten billion percent factual is meaningless until it is shown through cited references. V-Man737 01:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Repetitious comment. Discussions about the contents of article should be conducted at Talk:Geoffrey Giuliano. I will answer the anon's comments there. This page is about whether the article should be deleted or not. JamesMLane t c 03:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL, sorry. If you think it necessary, feel free to move my comments there. V-Man737 03:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.