Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gay icons

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep the gay icon article in its present form: an article about the phenomenon with no names mentioned. -- RHaworth 10:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Notes. This discussion was mal-formed - no title header, not linked into any deletion log, not clear whether it was referring to a "list of ..." article or to a category. Note that categories for deletion should be discussed at WP:CFD. However Category:Gay icons appears to already have been discussed for deletion on more than one occasion with the conclusion in each case being: no consensus. -- RHaworth 10:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete The article for this list was already deleted because of its superfluous nature and the grounds for inclusion of just about anyone. The introduction: "They often include the larger than life female movie stars of the past especially dramatic actresses and sex symbols, pop music diva types and female stars of musicals (particularly those with powerful, emotive voices and/or troubled personal lives), boy bands and handsome famous men. These "icons" may or may not be gay themselves, and their work may or may not have much to do with homosexuality beyond subtext and target audience (with the notable exceptions of openly gay entertainers)." Every one of these "types" are also famous for identical reasons among the "straight" community. Believe it or not, boy bands, handsome famous men, dramatic actresses, sex symbols, and pop music divas are held in high esteem by blacks, Asians, Indians, middle-easterners, men, women... 70.243.32.96 22:54, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Keep I had no idea that Judy Garland was so popular with the Asian community or the Middle-Eastern community, or that they consider her an icon. But anyway, it seems that we have to do this every single month, even though some of us have listed reasons why these icons are popular among gays and have deleted many names that are not popular among gays (like Mr. Clean). --JamesB3 23:01, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• • That's the thing... You're treating gays like they're some other kind of race or species. They're people. Just like Asians are people, and blacks are people. If you were to randomly ask 5000 black people if they liked Judy Garland, and 3700 said yes, and this experiment could be repeated with the majority of respondents saying they liked Judy Garland in the majority of the samples taken, would it then be declared that Judy Garland is a black icon? The fact of the matter is, celebrities are celebrities, and role models, icons, whatever you want to call them, have no racial or sexual boundries. Trying to declare such is ridiculous.70.243.32.96 04:15, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• • • Everyone is a person, but everyone is different. They have different tastes. There's a reason why there are gay pride events, the Million Man March, and so on. Even though we are all human beings, and cannot always be categorized based on sexual orientation or race or gender, there are some similarities within those boundaries. Believe me, I know that not all gays are similar. Trends come and go. Madonna was a huge icon for gays 10 or 20 years ago, not as much today. I certainly don't like Britney Spears but that doesn't mean she hasn't been heavily marketed to some of the gay community. Gays of another era may have been more supportive of Judy Garland or Mae West than gays today. Judy herself repeatedly talked about how important her gay following was. The point of the list is not to state that ALL gays MUST like every single person on the list. It is to document trends and in a sense the history of the gay community. If people want to put up a category for Black Icons, or Asian Icons, I would be happy to contribute. --JamesB3 05:26, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Strong Delete - This article category seems to me to be nothing more than a laundry list of popular celebrities who supposedly have been idolized by various members of the gay community, the definition of which is purely speculative and subject to many people's individual POV. Simply googling people on this list to see if they are gay icons does not provide sufficient proof that they really are, "gay icons," since much of the results of the google searches probably come from seriously POV articles and blogs and not mainstream media sources.

Furthermore, providing such a laundry list will not help gays gain acceptance in modern society, and in fact, will likely strengthen the divide. Narrow-minded straight people that read this list will be less likely to support particular artists and celebrities on the list that are supposedly popular in the gay community; and narrow-minded gays will be less likely to support those celebrities not on the list, because they won't think that they support their movement.

Please, for the love of god, stop categorizing people like this! Dr. Cash 18:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I didn't realize the point of Wikipedia was to help gays gain acceptance in modern society. I would hope that people don't pin THAT much on one website. If someone is so bigoted that they stop supporting an artist because of what they read about gays on one website, then they are going to feel that way whether this category exists or not. I don't think it's very POV to say that someone like Barbra Streisand is or was popular in the gay community. She even started her career singing in gay bars. --JamesB3 22:20, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.