Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gay friendly

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No consensus. Looking at the article, I noticed that it has been edited to address the concerns of even some of the delete voters. --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gay friendly

This is a somewhat controversial issue, so here goes: two prominent OR tags on it, and, aside from that, has serious POV issues (and I have no doubt, will continue to as long as the article continues to list "gay-friendly" celebrities and organizations the way it does). Also, according to another opinion I got, which I very much agree with, the article shouldn't exist, since it implies that most people are not -- hence it is an unmaintainable list. We don't have an article on "black friendly", for example. The article originally had a transwiki tag on it, but it is not fit for transwikification in the state it's currently in. Recommend either delete or eliminate the last two sections (leaving a dicdef that can be transwikied). TheProject 04:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep but delete the lists of people and organizations. The idea of "gay friendliness" is a recognized concept which is sufficiently complex that IMO it deserves an encyclopaedia entry (and not just a dictionary one).

However, though such an article should mention a few really prominent people to illustrate the concept, it is POV to assert unequivocally that an individual is or isn't "gay friendly". The most that we could have is List of people identified as gay friendly, but that would be pointless and unmaintainable. Homophobes can still do gay-friendly PR stunts, and celebrities who haven't yet done gay-friendly PR stunts shouldn't automatically be considered "gay-unfriendly."--Saforrest 05:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, as nominated. Brian G. Crawford 05:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I'm a rabid supporter of gay rights, but even I think this is pointless. Props to TheProject for wording the AfD so nicely. --mboverload 05:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Apparently gay friendly means "things or people that are friendly to gays." Wikipedia is not the place for tautologies. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as OR, and WP:NOT a collection of lists. Catamorphism 07:53, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as nominated. First section duplicates gay and the rest is OR. Kimchi.sg 08:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, as Kimchi. -- GWO
• Delete as inherently POV. And not a single reference to back any of it up. Kevin 11:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete uncited POV original research. And those are the good points. Just zis Guy you know? 13:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Too nebulous, unreferenced, unmaintainable. For example, look at the Alanis Morrissette entry, who is included because one of her songs has the lyric "meeting the man of my dreams, and meeting his beautiful husband". Since "gay-friendly" is something that can't really be defined, it also can't be verified. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete POV/OR. --Eivind^t@c 22:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Straight ally. --Allen 01:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Before you delete this article I think you consider the possibility that this article may simply have a poorly thought-out focus. I completely agree with all of you when you say that the content of this article should be deleted. However… the term itself is very real. This seems to be a case of small but fundamental error in the definition leading to the awful situation right now.

Gay-Friendly is a real term, and refers to the policies and practices that institutions and companies implement in order to create a welcoming environment to LGBT people. It is very North American late 20th century term that largely arose due to 1) the gradual recognition of gay rights and acceptance of gay-friendly policies in the workplace and in schools 2) the recognition of a potentially lucrative gay market by businesses and communities. I can think of three big areas where “gay friendly” is typically be used:

1) Travel/Leisure/Places to live: There are a lot of travel guides and organizations that create Gay Friendliness indexes for vacations spots, countries and cities. Businesses and tourist centers actually do pay attention to this.

2) Gay Friendly workplaces & gay friendly companies: Basically, creating Gay friendly environments and would include policies or practices that protect gay rights. These would include policies to discrimination policy, maternity leave, health coverage, etc.

3) Schools/Universities: A mix of the above two, for example, rankings of Gay Friendly universities, gay friendly student policies, etc.

I have absolutely no idea how this article has remained so mixed up over the last few years, but hope that it will change in the future. I propose that the article instead be gutted of the pop trivia and listing, and be replaced with instead, a real article on this definition.--P-Chan 20:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep or possible Merge. Yes, the term "gay friendly" is certainly a real term. There is no real parallel between the concept of "black friendly" and "gay friendly." To my understanding, it is illegal on all basis (at least within the United States) to discriminate against blacks. Therefore, all institutions in this country must be by law "black friendly." This is not the case where gays are concerned. I believe there are many pockets of society where you can still fire a person, deny them housing, deny them child custody, adoption rights, etc., simply because they are gay. I recently read that Clay Aiken was dropped by Christian organizers of a Christian concert -- because they heard he is gay. Could you imagine the reaction had they dropped a black artist because they are black? What I'm trying to say here is that, for more than a decade, the term "gay friendly" has indeed been used within the gay community as a means of identifying businesses, organizations, and people who openly accept gays and will not discriminate against them. -- Andrew Parodi 14:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.