Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Garnik Hovhannisyan

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 00:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Garnik Hovhannisyan

Garnik Hovhannisyan (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Article created by User:Mario1987 which fails to demonstrate notability according to WP:ATHLETE or WP:FOOTY/Notability. PROD was removed without any improvements being made to the article English peasant 17:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following articles because they too demonstrate no notability and had the prod tags removed without attempt to make the articles meet accepted notability standards:

-English peasant 18:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment Can you clarify your nomination as to why they don't meet notability? These are all players for FC Ararat Yerevan in the Armenian Premier League, which appears to be fully professional as far as I can ascertain. --Canley (talk) 19:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
  • The articles are unsourced, there are no appearance stats or years of appearance and judging by the article creators track record probably missing important information and full of inaccuracies too. Basically the articles all fail to assert notability, they have been sitting on Wikipedia for over six months and nothing has been done to improve them. If anyone wants to find evidence that these players have played at professional level and provide reliable sources the articles can be kept. In their current state they are less than useful. English peasant 20:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Commnet: Stating that someone is a player for a fully professional team is an assertion of notability. Verification is, as you note, another matter, but the assertions are made. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
  • There is nothing on the FC Ararat Yerevan article demonstrating that they are a professional team, nothing on the Armenian Premier League article stating that it is a professional league and nothing to show that any of these players have actually played for the club at all, simply stating that they have played for the club could be considered an assertion of notability in ignorance of the fact that Mario1987 has written "**** currently plays for ****" for dozens of players that have never been close to first team football. If the articles are about notable subjects than what is the problem with fixing them to demonstrate it? English peasant 21:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep all They meet the football notability guidelines quoted by nominator. Tag them as unreferenced stubs by all means, but deletion is not needed – AFD is not cleanup. Nor is improvement a prerequisite for removing a PROD tag. Get WikiProject Football and WikiProject Armenia involved. Here is verification that these players play for FC Ararat Yerevan from the Football Federation of Armenia, as well as player statistics, so I am not at all convinced that these articles are even remotely unsalvagable. The fact that they are not tagged for cleanup or WikiProject support in any way is probably one of the reasons they were somewhat abandoned. I am aware that the creator of these articles has been banned for sockpuppetry, and has possibly created spurious articles in the past, but this does not make all their contributions invalid. --Canley (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I have attempted to get WP:FOOTY involved on more than one occasion, the only editor helping me go through the hundreds of crap articles created by this user is Jogurney. Why should it be left to two people to clean up the enormous mess created by a problematic editor over six months? Also I have seen no evidence that the Armenian league is professional. English peasant 23:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Um, just click on the names! Voila! Verification of birth dates, caps and goals from the country's football authority. (OK, I see you've realised this now) I'm adding the FFA links to the articles as we speak. If you doubt that the Armenian Premier League is professional, there are better ways to verify this than nominating most of the players in the league for deletion. --Canley (talk) 23:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, with the exception of two players (Samvel Petrosyan and Steven Hazarian), I've added the FFA link and stats for all of the above players which verifies their team affiliation, caps and goals and date of birth. Good for you if you've attempted to fix up messy articles, but if you've assumed that all of a certain editor's contributions are invalid then you're letting yourself in for a lot of unnecessary stress. Notability and verifiability concerns have been addressed, insisting that the APL may not be a professional league is a matter which should be sorted out on that article's talk page or WP:FOOTY, not in bulk AFD discussions. --Canley (talk) 01:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I have not assumed all of his contributions are crap and unreliable, just most of them. See User:Mario1987/Football players for the scale of the problem. The vast majority of these articles do not demonstrate notability, around 15-25% of them have never played first team football and nobody except Jogurney, myself and a few random editors from German Wikipesia can be bothered to fix them. See this for an example of how Mario1987 just made things up when he didn't know the right details. Another example is Orestes Junior Alves where he provided the external link, but couldn't be bothered to type out his former clubs so left the article stating that he suddenly appeared playing professional football in Germany aged 26. Nearly every article he has created is inaccurate or misleading. English peasant 13:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Wow, looks pretty frustrating. I noticed when looking at those Armenian articles that they seem to have been created by some kind of automated process perhaps as they all had the same quirks and errors. Sorry to give you a hard time about this, thanks for the link to Mario1987's contributions, I'll resolve to help you guys out and work on that list with you. Great work so far. --Canley (talk) 21:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
OK I accept that AfDing them may have been a bit excessive, but at least someone has now actually attempted to improve the articles after six months and several requests to Mario1987 and WP:FOOTY. One question I need to ask though; is false information better than no information? The infobox in this article Sergey Erzrumyan now states that he made his debut in 2007 aged 26, making 23 appearances between January and April 2007. I'm fairly sure this is not true but don't have a clue where to look for his actual career statistics English peasant 12:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I've started to add career history to the articles per www.eufo.de (which is a reliable source, but I'm not adding cites for each season). The articles are a real mess and Steven Hazarian doesn't appear on the eufo.de squad listing or on the FFA squad listing. Either the article is about a youth player or a hoax. Best regards. Jogurney (talk) 13:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Speedy keep Sergey Erzrumyan He played in the fully professional Russian First Division in 2002. Jogurney (talk) 14:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy keep - AfD is not the place to complain about the state of these articles. ugen64 (talk) 23:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.