Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frances Lynn

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep following rewrite. --Haemo (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frances Lynn

Frances Lynn (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Questionable notability - failure to provide sourcing of bio details, which have proved unfindable except via self-published online sources —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gordonofcartoon (talk • contribs)

  • Delete: Being a journalist doesn't quite meet notability guidelines. - Rjd0060 01:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: Sources do not meet WP:RS if they are self-published. Changing to Keep. Aside from being a journalist, the subject has authored two books reviewed by independent sources. ++Arx Fortis 02:51, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
OK. Where? Gordonofcartoon 03:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: Doesn't seem notable, the subject of the article contributed a lot to it, and sources brought from the subject's own website just nullify the argument. -- Mentifisto 07:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Userfy to main contributor and delete from article namespace. That is a workmanlike, pragmatic solution. The article is poorly sourced with regard to WP:RS, poorly written, poorly laid out and the subject of the article is borderline notable at best. Fiddle Faddle 09:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • comment I am perfectly persuadable to change form D to K if the article is substantially improved and asserts the true notability of the subject. We should certainly allow re-creation if it is deleted. Fiddle Faddle 16:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep after the major edit that has taken place. I see this now as a valid stub much in need of expansion. It has valid citations, with some others that may be hard to find, though reliable, in the pipeline. Fiddle Faddle 22:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete and userfy without prejudice to re-creation if anyone can find third-party sources. Weak keep now it has been trimmed to sourced material. Gordonofcartoon 21:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

On my talk page: I have said someone submitted my entry. At the time, nobody on Wikipedia objected. I didn't realise one couldn't edit ones own entry which I have substantially done. Everything in the entry is fact - but I don't know how I can add more sources ..... I was a gossip columnist thirty years ago and most of my journalistic credits are historical too. I wasn't just a journalist and first time author - I did write comic scripts for 2000 AD! Frances Lynn, author 13:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Found: Tharg's Future Shocks. Verified here and here at the 2000 AD official site.
Difficulty is that we don't doubt the information: but Wikipedia, because of its open edit system, has to operate from authority of publication source rather than authority of identity. We can't tell who anyone is, but this doesn't matter if they cite, say, a Times article that anyone can find. Gordonofcartoon 14:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Frances Lynn, author 12:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete No Reliable sources, wouldnt object to a keep if any are found. Twenty Years 13:50, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I've now added an External Link for my comic scripts on 2000 AD. I've also now submitted a (stub?) article for Ritz Newspaper. If it's accepted - I can edit it further. On David Bailey's entry - it says he was the publisher of Ritz Newspaper (that info was submitted by me) Frances Lynn, author 14:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC) Frances Lynn, author 14:50, 2 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franceslynn (talk • contribs)

I've added an External Link for my comic scripts on 2000 AD Frances Lynn, author 14:56, 2 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franceslynn (talk • contribs)

  • Delete - per notability. --Tom 14:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

As I have now added an External Link for my 2000 AD comic scripts - does that now make me 'notable'? Frances Lynn, author 14:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franceslynn (talk • contribs)

No. --Tom 17:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I have now added that Night Of The Living Dead topped my top ten list in John Kobal's Top 100 Movie Book - the only way I can think of sourcing this is to add an External Link for the book on Amazon which I haven't done. Frances Lynn, author 15:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC) I also added an External Link for my comic scripts on 2000 AD Frances Lynn, author 15:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment and request for someone to assist Franceslynn: This user is doing her very best, but is new to Wikipedia. I have tried, as have others, to help out on her talk page. The article is becoming better sourced, there is no argument about that, but probably not in the most effective way for it yet to survive this AfD. Please would an experienced editor take her under their wing and help her in her efforts? This is a newbie, and we should strive not to bite. It is by no means certain that the subject is sufficiently notable, but good sources (or not) are the best way to prove that. Fiddle Faddle 16:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Fiddle Faddle - I also found a link which verifies I wrote a Top Ten Movie list in John Kobal Presents The Top 100 Movies book http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/polls8.htm - I don't know how to include this source in my entry though. Frances Lynn, author 16:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franceslynn (talk • contribs) I've now managed to source John Kobal Presents The Top 100 Movies book on my entry .... Frances Lynn, author 16:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

BTW, we shouldn't forget that this is a COI situation. Frances Lynn should not be editing the article about herself, but as WP:COI advises, helping via the Talk page. Gordonofcartoon 17:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see the above so I have just edited my article - adding issue nos for my Ritz articles (can't find all my old issues with the interviews in!) and also put a link in for Barry Fantoni! (after reading this: *Where have your books been reviewed? Can you give a more exact reference for Barry Fantoni's remarks in the Evening News? What issues of Ritz Newspaper were your celebrity interviews in? --Paularblaster 15:13, 2 December 2007 (UTC) Frances Lynn, author 18:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franceslynn (talk • contribs)

  • I've cleaned up a little, see here, [1]. I'm going to offer a weak keep based on the 2000 AD work. That's notable enough for me. Hiding T 20:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment the article now has at least two referenc`es independent of Lynn herself. I have just added one written about her in The Evening Standard that verifies her status as gossip columnist for Ritz Newspaper. I think we have probably sufficient references cited inline to assert sufficient notability for a stub. There is far more work to do in order to create a full article, though. Fiddle Faddle 12:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak delete. Some notability claims, but still appears to fall short of WP:BIO.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 12:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. The COI and sourcing issues still need work, but notability as such shouldn't be a problem (minorly notable, but notable none the less). --Paularblaster 23:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.