Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Forres Thistle F.C.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep, with strong suggestion sources are added to the articles. Davewild (talk) 10:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forres Thistle F.C.

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. Dudesleeper · Talk 18:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Forres Thistle F.C. (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Junior football clubs are not normally notable. This nomination also applies to:

• Banks O' Dee F.C.
• Burghead Thistle F.C.
• Dufftown F.C.
• F.C. Stoneywood
• Glentanar F.C..

• Delete all. TerriersFan (talk) 22:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
• Relectant Delete all None of these teams are truly notable. Hammer1980·^talk 23:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Some of these are really old names, but are junior clubs and have no place here. scope_creep (talk) 23:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. Junior football has a different meaning in Scotland, the Scottish Junior Football Association is not a kids league. This has been discussed recently and notability asserted for the top Scottish Junior teams. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of Scottish football will clarify the situation. King of the NorthEast 23:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - They are still quite low in the food chain since they are below the senior non-league leagues (as it were) in the structure. I specifically did not include Culter F.C. which entered the Scottish Club proper but those nominated fail to have even this claim to notability. TerriersFan (talk) 00:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment I was under the impression that Junior football runs in parallel with Non-league football in Scotland rather than below it, with level 1 junior football being at the same level as the Highland League. I'm not sure why you have chosen to nominate teams from North Region Premier League (level 1 junior football) when there are dozens of articles on teams from level 2 Junior football (Scottish Junior Football West Division One and Scottish Junior Football East Region Premier League) and level 3 Junior football (Scottish Junior Football East Region North Division, Scottish Junior Football East Region South Division & Scottish Junior Football East Region Central Division). King of the NorthEast 01:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Strong keep In the context of Scottish football, Junior does not mean youth - Junior football runs alongside "senior" non-league football, so these teams are theoretically at the same level as Highland Football League teams such as Huntly F.C.. Most of the teams you have nominated are from the top division (Scottish Junior Football North Premier League), and are of equivalent standing to Auchinleck Talbot F.C. et al. пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - One big difference is that the teams you mention have won significant honours. The ones here have no record of that in the article. TerriersFan (talk) 15:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - The Banks O' Dee F.C. one says they won the Scottish Junior Cup in 1956-57! That's about as siginificant you can get in the world of the SJFA. - fchd (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - I see that as an argument to keep that one but what have the other five won? TerriersFan (talk) 03:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep all - SJFA clubs are of the equivalent standing to mid-range Non-League clubs in England, and a fair number are stronger than those in the so-called "senior" leagues. - fchd (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
• Strong keep - Per this past AfD nomination. - Dudesleeper · Talk 17:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
• Strong keep - Surely the fact that junior teams are "not normally notable" is a justification why they should be kept. if they are not normally notable people will struggle to find info on them, but they will find it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darryl.matheson (talk • contribs) 18:05, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

So the articles should be kept because the subjects aren't notable? That makes no sense at all.... ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep As per result of previous AfD nomination. King of the NorthEast 20:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: As it stands, Forres Thistle F.C. is speediable per A1 (no context), A3 (no content) and A7 (no assertion of notability). The full content is "Logie Park, Forres Current Manager 06/07 Kevin Walker Current squad 06/07 <list of players>". If the club is notable enough for Wikipedia, it certainly doesn't become clear from the article. Aecis^Brievenbus 01:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Fixed (or at least stubbified). пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - Surely if this article is not notable enough for wikipedia then it throws into question the notablity of every smallish football (or any other sports) club article into doubt. I fully agree with the user above who says about the need to keep articles like this very one on wikipedia as it is supposed to be all about people supplying local knowledge to help educate others on previously unknown subjects. All this article needs it somone with some local information about the ream to expand the article to make it more like the other articles already on wikipedia!! Dreamweaverjack (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - sorry but those are not grounds for a keep never mind a strong keep. I am buying the idea that Junior Cup winners and those teams that enter the Scottish Cup proper are notable but the others need to show compliance with WP:N in their pages. TerriersFan (talk) 04:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - All that is wrong with these six articles is that they need wikified and expanded to become acceptable football club pages. The case for them staying is listed on WP:IKNOWIT, this says that which is irrelevant to one user, could be very important to another user. This wikipedia guideline blows apart User talk:TerriersFan's case for a speedy deletion of any of these articles!! Dreamweaverjack (talk) 05:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment Nominator has still not explained the reasoning behind nomination of teams that play at level one of Scottish Junior football (Banks O' Dee F.C., F.C. Stoneywood etc) while dozens of articles remain about teams playing at level 3 of SJFA (Thornton Hibernian F.C., Crossgates Primrose F.C., Sauchie F.C. etc). Just for the record I believe that all of these teams are notable, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of the nomination. Level 3 of SJFA has been established as equivelent to level 7 of Scottish football. Level 7 of English football is Northern Premier League Premier Division yet a quick look tells us that we have articles about teams at least down to level 12 in England (Fulbourn Institute F.C., Kimberley Town F.C. etc).King of the NorthEast 12:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Delete All Nothing notable. None of the teams are notable at all.Metal Head (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep all- it appears that the nomination was based on a misunderstanding of what is meant by "Junior" in the context of Scottish football. All articles, however, are in need of expansion. But being a stub is no good reason to delete. Robotforaday (talk) 12:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.