Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fiolina Germi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy close nomination was by now blocked sock. JoshuaZ 15:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fiolina Germi

Fiolina Germi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable fictional character. Article is a plot summary of the character with no real-world context or significance, which fails WP:NOT#PLOT, and a trivia section which is discouraged under WP:TRIVIA. No substantial coverage in secondary sources to indicate notability per WP:FICT. "'Fiolina Germi' -wikipedia" on Google returns non-reliable fansites and forums and trivial mentions. Without reliable secondary sources independent of the subject to establish notability, it's impossible to rewrite or cleanup the article in such way that it doesn't fail WP:FICT and/or some clause of WP:NOT. Doctorfluffy 05:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 05:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Fio has appeared in the King of Fighters series, and all of those characters have pages. It's a bit of a problem to delete this article but leave the others alone. Could you consider withdrawing this AfD and discussing the issue in the King of Fighters talk page? JuJube 11:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

  I haven't looked at the others, but it's likely they should be deleted as well. Have reliable secondary sources devoted substantial coverage to any of them? Doctorfluffy 19:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Significant player character in not one but TWO notable, long running major-publisher video game series. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

  Notability is not inherited. Have reliable secondary sources devoted substantial coverage to this character? Doctorfluffy 16:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• Merge into a character list. This article has no secondary sources and no real-world information. There is nothing here to justify a separate article. Pagrashtak 19:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge all character articles into a single list for the series. No critical commentary or third party sources to confirm individual notability. David Fuchs ^(talk) 01:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep I hate, hate, hate WP:FICT simply because it gives barely any suggestions for what qualifies as "notable". Honestly, how many video game characters have had literary analysis on them? Looking at some VG character GAs, it looks like the only way to establish "notability" is to look for mentions of the characters in reviews, in which case neo-geo.com's reviewer on Metal Slug 2 praises the character design and calls Fio his favorite character. Frankly though, I think being major character in 7 video games and a notable crossover in 3 makes her notable enough.--72.204.47.232 19:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

  WP:FICT is pretty straight forward - "fictional concepts are deemed notable if they have received substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources". It goes on, reliable secondary sources cover information such as sales figures, critical and popular reception, development, cultural impact, and merchandise; this information describes the real-world aspects of the concept, so it is "real-world content". WP:RS and WP:RSEX go into more detail about what exactly a reliable source is. The review you provided would probably be considered a trivial mention, whereas most notability guidelines require "significant" or "substancial" coverage. Doctorfluffy 20:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

  That's not straightforward at all. The character can't be sold, details on development do not establish notability, characters aren't reviewed, and any mechandise the character is part of would also be deemed irrelevent.--72.204.45.94 22:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

  1. You're right, sales don't really apply in this case.
  2. Details on development help establish real-world context and, in turn, notability. That guideline says just that.
  3. Important characters are "reviewed" in many cases. I'm sure you could easily find a character analysis, a critical commentary, or an article detailing cultural impact for Darth Vader, Superman, or Atticus Finch in just a few minutes on Google.
  4. Merchandising can apply in many cases. For example, there may be a line of products based on a ficional character when a product line doesn't exist for the series itself or isn't considered important - perhaps that character's sales make up 90% of the total sales.

  I think what you're doing wrong is assuming that it's possible for the notability criteria to be met in a large majority of circumstances, when that's not the case. The guidelines are trying to define a subjective concept in objective terms and are meant to be somewhat restrictive because not everything is notable. Doctorfluffy 00:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

  RE2: Developer blog entry on Fio. There are at least six other entries that discuss her as well.

  RE3: Bad examples. We're talking video game characters here. Seach for "character analysis" about video game characters and you get game guides, which WP is not. Also, Link (The Legend of Zelda) (FA) has no such section.--72.204.45.94 07:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.