Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Filippo Raciti

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. — CharlotteWebb 10:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Filippo Raciti

I am nominating this article for deletion because this officer, while his death is tragic, does not meet Wikipedia's standards of notability. -- Zytron 00:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

  1. The person has been a primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.
  2. Persons achieving renown or notoriety for playing a major role in a event receiving major news and media coverage (e.g., orchestrating and engaging a famous crime spree or a widely known heroic event).
--Angelo 00:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep This is EXTREMELY notable - it's a dead policeman, but the impact on Italian football could be massive. Porterjoh 00:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak keep Barely meets WP:BIO. P.B. Pilhet / Talk 01:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep multiple non-trivial works, major role in major media event.--Steve (Slf67) talk 01:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as meeting the notability criterion; the subject of the article has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works. In addition, the subject also appears to satisfy WP:BIO. --Kyra~(talk) 01:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I propose suspending this AfD until the AfD on http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Raciti (Italiano ) is completed then do the same Filippo Raciti Translated by Google Jeepday 01:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I don't agree, simply because notability rules on Italian Wikipedia are very different than here. --Angelo 01:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and no need to suspend. His notability doesn't come from the fact that he's a policeman, it comes from the fact that his death shut down all Italian football. Which is a notable event connected to him. In addition, I would not be surprised if there are further repercussions. Crystallina 02:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a case where his death established his notability by the consequences of it. Resolute 02:27, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep All football in Seria A and B has been cancelled due to his death, that is unprecedented.--134.225.177.27 02:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Not just Serie A and B, but every football league fixture in the country, plus all national team appearances (an Italy vs Romania friendly was scheduled this Wednesday and cancelled because of his death). --Angelo 02:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Italy's government alone will suffer millions of dollar in lost tax revenue. His death is notable beyond a doubt. Xiner (talk, email) 04:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep: massive worldwide media coverage has proved that Filippo Raciti meets with the notability criteria. --Daĉjoпочта 06:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. It's not what he's done throughout his life, it's what his death has done to Italian football. It will take them a while to recover from this. Cream147 07:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Verifiable via appropriate sources. /Blaxthos 09:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong keep High-profile individual in a major news event. Qwghlm 09:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. But. A year from now might be a different story. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 11:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. The article should have been speedy deleted as a G12 and recreated, but wasn't. As a result, the earliest versions contain copyvio material. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge into the Italian Football Violence page, his death is notable, but his life was not. Ram4eva 12:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep there are also German and Italian wiki articles about him and do they think his entry should be deleted from those pages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jet2006 (talk • contribs)
  • Keep - --Attilios 12:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge into the Italian Football Violence page — his death did cause suspension of games, but his relevant biographical information could be condensed into a 4-or-5 sentence paragraph. DL77 13:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, people killed in noteworthy circumstances are generally considered notable; see e.g. Benno Ohnesorg. --Delirium 13:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep This murder is not only related to Football violence, but to social violence against police in some Italian gruop. It is a witness fact of its time unfortunately. --Bramfab 14:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong keep There are many articles on wikipedia about police officers who have faced terible circumstances.TellyaddictEditor review! 16:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep obviously meets WP:BIO. Quadzilla99 17:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per Porterjoh--KaragouniS 18:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep meets WP:BIO, will also come handy as a sub-chapter or sub-linked item for football vioence related articels. HagenUK 19:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep Anything that can shut down football in Europe is very notable. I expect there are repercussions we have yet to see that will need to be chronicled under this fallen officer's name. --SilverhandTalk 19:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep and look into closing under WP:SNOW Passes Notability and Verifiability, as his death not only has suspended all football in italy, but his death is/will be the defining moment in a crackdown on the Italian Ultra Scene. SirFozzie 20:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep - The incident around his unfortunate death makes him notable. Kingjeff 00:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - A lot of the purported Notability seems to hinge on how significant (long) the football stoppage will be ("...there are repercussions we have yet to see.."), and that is not yet known. Therefore, until more important repercussions occur, not notable. --lightspeedchick 03:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong merge to article about the Catania violence. The violence is unquestionably notable, but Mr. Raciti is only notable insofar as he connects to the event. Certainly a plausible redirect, though. GassyGuy 03:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: and Footballers are only notable because of football. Kingjeff 04:01, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Completely different. "Football" is a broad sport played in various incarnations. An athlete who habitually participates at a sufficiently notable level in such events is notable, and we have specific guidelines to determine which ones are and are not. Mr. Raciti has no long-term notability with something like "football" - he is connected to a very specific news event. His notability is inextricably tied to the event, whereas footballers often have slight claims to notability outside of football. Regardless, Mr. Raciti is known for one thing, and one thing only - being killed in the Catania violence. It would, therefore, be more sensible to cover him in that article, where his notability is better contextualized, than to break him off from the event and have two articles on what are, notability-wise, the same subject. GassyGuy 04:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Question: But this is a notable event and Herr Raciti is a major person in this case. How can he not be notable? Kingjeff 17:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
      • He is notable as part of the event and should therefore be covered in the article for the event. He is not notable as a person because he receives no actual coverage as a person prior to this event, and, as he's now dead, will not be able to become notable as a person. GassyGuy 19:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
        • It doesn't matter how he becomes notable. Kingjeff 19:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
          • This discussion is becoming silly. Does it even matter what I say? I keep trying to explain my reasons and you don't even address them, so why bother replying? Yes, it does matter. To be notable by Wikipedia standards, you are the subject of multiple non-trivial yadda yadda yadda. Raciti is not. The violence is. Raciti is a plausible search term and makes a lovely redirect as an aspect of the Catania violence covered within that article, in my opinion. Obviously there won't be a consensus to merge and I'm not even bothering to propose it on the page. I only keep explaining myself because you keep replying, which I assumed meant you wanted to discuss my idea. If you do not and simply wish to keep reasserting that you disagree, then that's unnecessary and I will stop attempting to explain myself for some vain non-purpose, but please then do not lead me to believe I should be further discussing the reasoning behind my opinion to merge. GassyGuy 21:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Okay, let's stop it all. The guideline says "the person has been a primary subject of multiple non-trivial works...", not "he has been the most primary one". On these works, Raciti is a subject too, together with the events itself, Catania football club and so on. Then, you can find another criterion which says "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for playing a major role in a event receiving major news and media coverage" are likely to be notable here in Wikipedia. Raciti's name achieved notoriety worldwide following the events. Sorry, GassyGuy, but it seems you're wrong, and it seems also I'm not the only one to have such opinion on the matter (look at the discussion and votes). In the end, even Sirhan Sirhan is notable solely for a single event, but this is quite enough to make him notable for Wikipedia. --Angelo 21:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep policement. --- Tonganoxie Jim 24.60.163.16 16:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong keep subject of major news event. --Ted-m 17:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • keep while articles on officers which only notable fact is being killed in the line of duty are questionable, this officer was killed in a major riot, and his death contributed to a halt to football games in Italy for a period of time (according to the front page news article) definite keep. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SGGH (talk • contribs) 19:01, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
  • Keep. Notable enough to stand alone. Vees 20:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.