Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fflam (second nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. If at some point it's no longer a WP:CRYSTAL violation and there's more meat on the bones than it's planned for (some unnamed date in) 2008, it may be appropriate but now it's pure speculation Carlossuarez46 18:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fflam

Fflam (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Disclaimer: I nominated this article for deletion last time, too. Telsa (talk)

• Delete: this was supposed to be a music festival in Swansea. It never happened. Why should it have an article? Telsa (talk) 08:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete: non-notable. Reinis^talk 08:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete with no prejudice to recreation if the event is reorganised and can be shown as notable – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Change to Keep - the official website [1] makes it clear that it will be running next year, and with acts like Manic Street Preachers (who are so notable even I've heard of them!) it is clearly notable. Therefore keep, as per original AfD – Tivedshambo (talk) 11:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

What you're looking at is the update from July (when they said the weather forecast was too bad, so they were postponing.) They have released the cancellation announcement, but they haven't updated their website. The Fflam website has claimed "upcoming", "to be announced", "real soon now", "no, don't cancel, we're really happening", "we'll announce something about the camping soon", "next week", "by the end of the month", "as soon as we can confirm", "we can't tell you yet", "but it will be worth the wait" about practically everything to do with this festival since its inception: this ranges from who the bands will be, which bands have actually confirmed, whether there will be camping, where there will be camping, whether there will be day tickets, children's tickets, parking, or even refunds ever since the thing was announced. I don't think that website remotely qualifies as a reliable source, and I don't think Wikipedia should be used as free advertising.

I think this is a textbook example of why Wikipedia articles should describe only what's already happened and not what is claimed to happen; and of why sources other than the publicists should be preferred. Other sources do exist, incidentally: if you have some time to spare, you could browse the discussion off-site about it, which is 90-odd pages of "so, um, has anyone heard anything definite?" and "is this happening?" or go to the local paper website and type "Fflam" into the search engine. I suspect the inquest will run and run, but I still don't think that a festival which didn't happen is notable.

Telsa (talk) 13:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It is also on BBC News website from 3 August - see [2] – Tivedshambo (talk) 11:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Do we really need articles on music festivals that were supposed to happen, then were postponed, then were canceled, now might be rescheduled for next year? Seems like glaring speculation and completely non-notable.Falard 00:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Worthy of an article if they actually make some plans to hold it again. malatesta 22:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, this currently says "music event, was cancelled, is now scheduled for *sometime* in 2008". That's not an article. WP:CRYSTAL. We can recreate this when more information becomes known about the event. Melsaran 11:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.