Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ferenc Berényi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. —Kurykh 01:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ferenc Berényi

Ferenc Berényi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The subject of the article fails the criteria for notability per WP:BIO. No major awards or involvement in permanent collections. No major references from peers or major publications. Nv8200p talk 01:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Delete lacks sources, couldn't find anything on him that was in english. Oysterguitarist 01:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep ?Long list of permanent collections given, including the Hungarian National Gallery, where he also had a solo exhibition. Lack of Western coverage is not surprising for an artist of the Cold War period. This should be on the visual arts related list Johnbod 02:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Then the article needs to be clarified. The way it is written does not that a exhibition was created from pieces from the galleries permanent collection. It sound more like he lent his pieces for a showing. And there are no references, English or Hungarian. - Nv8200p talk 02:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The solo exhibition no doubt did include many or mostly borrowed pieces; that is nearly always the case. Johnbod 13:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Ideally, when an editor puts an article on an unfamiliar or international topic up for AfD on the basis of non-notability, he should first either search for sources himself or find someone who can (through a Wikiproject, for instance) to ensure it truly is non-notable. WP:NOTE requires that an article be unattributable, not that it be unattributed at the moment. The editor should also be wary of considering an AfD on a subject that would be more notable in a language the editor doesn't understand. WP:NOTE does not require English-language sources or notability in the United States or the English-speaking world. Consider that this man may be so notable in Hungary that none of the Hungarian editors thought he needed references to his notability, any more than an American editor might think Norman Rockwell did. --Charlene 05:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep, the Hungarian government has his works hanging in various of its Embassies and in their National Art Gallery. Very notable in the Hungarian art world obviously. Just because he is not well-known in the English world does not make him less notable. Callelinea 04:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

How do you know this? Please provide references as I cannot find any to support your claim -Nv8200p talk 21:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep A national gallery does not have "showings". A national gallery is not like the private art gallery down the road. Any artist who has his or her own exhibit in a national gallery is virtually by definition notable. English-languages references are irrelevant. If he's notable in Hungary, he's notable enough for Wikipedia, even if not one person who speaks English has heard of him. And an artist who has exhibited in a national gallery (a national gallery, by God!) and whose art works are displayed in embassies worldwide is notable. --Charlene 05:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

We don't know that he is notable in Hungary as there are no independent reliable references in the article or that I can find. Someone just claims he showed in the National Gallery with no evidence to prove it. -Nv8200p talk 21:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Notable by your definition, obviously.--Svetovid 01:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and format better please --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 10:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Sources in Hungarian are just as valid as sources in English, and his notability in Hungary does not seem to be in doubt. Hawkestone 12:13, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

There are no references or external links in English or Hungarian so his notability anywhere is still in doubt. -Nv8200p talk 21:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per above. Bart133 ^{(t) (c)} 17:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Well not everyone who speaks english knows hungarian. How am I suppose to know if this is reliable if there are no sources in english?Oysterguitarist 20:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep and improove.Ttturbo 22:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I have left a note at the Hungarian article, of which this seems a straight translation, asking for references, since it obviously should have some. Johnbod 01:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per above. --MaNeMeBasat 08:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per Charlene.xC | ☎ 10:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
• Delete unless sources added. Article in its current state is unverifiable. Stifle (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
• Comment just before anyone else votes please read Verifiability specifically Sources in languages other than English. Oysterguitarist 08:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 14:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, notability established, I've added a bio as a ref, and the awards, exhibitions and works in public ownership are all facts that will be recorded in well maintained archive records. Non English sources are not an insurmountable verifiability problem. Of course English sources are preferred over non-English ones, but sources exist to verify the information is correctly reporting what is in the source; that can be done by people who know both languages. WP:V makes no attempt to prohibit sources from other languages, rather it gives direction on how to deal with non-English ones. enwiki is written in English for English readers, but not necessary using English works as reference material. John Vandenberg 15:30, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.