Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fear of youth

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Fabrictramp (talk) 22:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fear of youth

Fear of youth (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Neologism. What does this article want to be? If this article really want to be about a clinical condition called "ephebiphobia", then I would have to say no, that is not a condition notable enough to have a separate article, instead redirect to List of phobias.

If the article want to be a gussied up version of the article "Old Folks SUX" then no, we don't need an original research essay on that topic, thanks.

The first Google hit for "ephebiphobia" is this article, the third is uses this article as a reference, and the second is an entity called "freechild.org". The main protector of this article is User:freechild and this is no coincidence, this article was designed and is maintained as an unsubtle POV hammer. Sure it has a lot of citations; good original essays do. Herostratus (talk) 19:57, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment - This is actually the second AfD for this article. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ephebophobia for the first. --Orlady (talk) 20:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm and it was deleted, under that name ("Ephebiphobia"). The article under this name ("Fear of youth") was created as a separate article shortly before that... Herostratus (talk) 01:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Herostratus, your accusation is inaccurate. Note the timeline:

• Freechild'sup? 19:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Reply. Wow - there is a lot of accusation flying around in your proposal Herostratus. Before this discussion really takes off let's remember to stay civil. • Freechild'sup? 23:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Further reply. Herostratus, looking over the article history for this article, you present an interesting study for me. In your opening salvo to the AfD you state the I've used the article as a POV hammer. Looking over the article history I notice you have been a diligent muse for my contributions to the article; after not interacting with it for more than 16 months after its creation, I began editing on it after you tagged it and had already worked on it extensively. After that point you continued to prompt my interaction by tagging and deleting and working on it diligently. Now, after almost no substantive additions or deletions since the beginning of the year, you go on the offense, and attack me and my motivations for working on the article while you're at it. I do not want to doubt the good faith you have for the WP project, Herostratus; however, I want a clear explanation of why you want this article deleted that goes beyond name-calling and accusations, which your nomination features. Please enlighten me. • Freechild'sup? 18:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge as a pov fork of adolescence, where more editors can watch it. There is actually fear of/discrimination against adolescents, which arose largely in response to the invention of adolescence itself as a life stage comprised of a new class people who didn't have the same rights as adults. Industrialization created "adolescents," as a renegade disenfranchised underclass. (Before that, adolescents were adults...) See this reference, which is notably missing: [1] Also, this article is missing info re racism--the fear of nonwhite adolescents is so intense in the US that it dicates public policy--since the 90s, they are warehoused in prisons at an alarming rate. There are plenty of references that address the demonization of and discrimination against nonwhite teenagers; the fear that is projected onto them.-PetraSchelm (talk) 21:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge per PetraSchelm. While there are lots of citations, some of them don't actually say what they're supposed to. Note that at adolescence, ephebiphobia is described as "the fear of adolescents gaining more rights or showing behavioral, emotional or social emancipation" while this article is mainly concerned with the fear of youth crime (something I wouldn't call "emancipation"). Huon (talk) 23:35, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge with Pediaphobia. That's where it belongs. Majoreditor (talk) 02:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Reply the citations in this article support the contention that the fear of youth is a unique phenomenon that is distinctly different from the fear of children. • Freechild'sup? 23:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. PetraSchelm, your argument actually further strengthens the reason why this article should stay put - add to the article. As many of the citations in this article show, this is clearly a legitimate phenomenon that should be acknowledged within the confines of WP. • Freechild'sup? 23:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Note. I expanded this article several times per PetraSchelm's suggestion, adding several reliable sources and information in order to mirror it more closely to other articles, particularly those on homophobia and transphobia.• Freechild'sup? 09:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Reply to Herostratus regarding OR and POV: Regarding Herostratus's assertion that this article is original research note that several the references and citations specifically mention "fear of youth" or "ephebiphobia" in their titles, while all of them specifically discuss the topic within their text; all of them directly relate to the topic. Note that regarding the charge of being a POV hammer, the essay on POV specifically states in its opening that, "Points of view are often essential to articles which treat controversial subjects." The major POV regarding ephebiphobia is that it is injust; that is represented in the article; there is no other major POV presented in the source material. This is not to say that, "other views are mentioned only pejoratively," as WP:NPOV states; it does mean that the facts about opinions are asserted, and not the the opinions themselves. That is what policy asks for. I believe the most recent edits and this clear analysis policy - rather than the simplistic assertion stated in the AfD nomination - clearly demonstrate the viability of the article, including how it meets WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:OR; I will stop responding now and let this AfD take its course. • Freechild'sup? 16:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep - Hello again, Herostratus. Yes, I created this article in 2005 under the name "Ephebiphobia"; it was then proposed for deletion and the proposal was rejected. Apparently someone two years later changed the article's name to this new one, "Fear of Youth".

My vote here is for keeping the article, either as "Fear of youth" or as "Ephebiphobia". A search for the latter term in Google gives not less than 35.000 results and I believe this indicates relevance. The original article in 2005 was based on sources from newspapers' articles researched then in the online "NewsLibrary.com". Those articles used the term "ephebiphobia". I think the subject is relevant as it points out to an existing and measurable social phenomenon. Paulo Andrade —Preceding comment was added at 19:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.