Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fatfatism

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Closing early, too many sock/meatpuppets. It's an obvious delete, so I'm nipping this in the bud. Proto::► 14:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Fatfatism

Fatfatism (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Very funny, but a neologism coined last week obviously does not deserve an article. Skarioffszky 14:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

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  • Delete Use of a current politician Family name and associate him to bad comments by one person belonging to the opponent political party}} elibou
  • Delete - This is nothing but a try of the pro-syrian parties to ridiculize AHmad Fatfat an anti-syrian, pro-hariri politician. First of all the article doesn't represent a Neutral Point of View but just a caricature from the pro-syrian parties of their opponents. The source is Al-Akhbar, nothing but a Hizbollah (the pro-syrian party) newspaper that is very far from neutrality. So this article must be deleted. elibou— elibou (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


  • Delete - I agree its funny but really its just plain non notable. Debaser23 14:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete Fatfatism deserves an entry of course!!! It is an important concept, and it goes beyond Lebanese politics. That we are discussing it here PROVES that it is more than just notable... - Fatfatist — Fatfatist (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Don't Delete - This definition has been shared all over the internet already, it is only normal that it's definition be found on a reliable source such as Wikipedia
  • Delete - It is very biased and it is a term that an anti lebanese pro syrian writer started, it is very insulting for a lot of lebanese, it promotes sectarianism , very bad decision Wikipedia 14:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - Considering the source of this definition, I do not think it deserves any attention as it comes from the Alakhbar newspaper. I guess those who know what is the political inclination of Alakhbar will know that it is far from truth. Moreover, regardless of whether Ahmed Fatfat is doing a good job or not, I do not think anyone else in Lebanon is doing a better job!!! That might seem very sad, but if this term is to included in wikipedia then I suggest the inclusion of some other terms like Nasrallatism. A brief definition of Nasrallahtism is as follows: An ideology equivalent to that of the Nazists. A one minded ideology which believes in mere destruction and which gives no regard to human life. An ideology which only works in ignorant societies, and which grows stronger and stronger through the brain-washing of its supporters. An ideology which puts Nasrallah himself on a godly level, whereas in fact he is just such a fascist which wants political power. There is still more to say, but I would leave it to others to add more. Wikipedia please consider my suggestion. Thank you
  • Delete: All Wikipedia articles must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV). This article is NOT neutral but represents ths political views of its author and contains much direct assault on the person of a widely respected political figure in Lebanon.
  • Delete there should be some more sources if it's "all over the internet already". And perhaps more than from today. --MECU≈talk 15:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Compromise Would it be an acceptable compromise if the term is kept on Wikipedia, but the reference to politicians removed? it is a fact that the term now exists and has a definition that could be used universally. I do not think there is a copyright over the word Fatfat that is a common word in Arabic beofre being a Last name. so the word can be used in the context the creator seems fit for it Moonsear 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - While babysitting this article today, I got a chance to really look at it; try again in a few months or a year and have references from then. We do not have articles on neologisms until they are very widespread and a couple of dudes with some blogs writing about a column from the day before is not enough to convince me this is a "real" word instead of a fad. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 15:47, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete - it is a new concept introduced in a very original way, with real world examples. Keeping this article will lead people who refuse the concept to argue against it, and the other to support it. Eventually this process will lead to the reformulation of an objective, scientific concept supported by very well argued concepts and examples.
  • Delete - Please keep it in mind that Angry Arab Assad Abu Khalil is nothing but an anti Lebanese Anti American & Pro Hezbollah & Hamas. His views mean nothing. This is just another attempt to degrade the sunnis in particular & the Christians & Druzes in General. If Wikipedia wants to be another access for these radicals to express their contempt of the Lebanese system, sure go ahead
  • Delete - This is a very bad joke that is adding nothing but fuel to the civil war fire in Lebanon. keep insulting the Siniora government & keep supporting the Hezbollah Terrorists. This is insane I swear. I thought Wikipedia would at least check before they post this grabage on. This is ridiculous. Shame on you Wikipedia


  • Don't Delete - Would you delete it if there is a Fatfatist party in lebanon? Zabadani 17:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC) — Mabizeid (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
    • No, we wouldn't. Or if there was a major faction following this politician referred to in the media by that term (e.g. the equivalent of Blairite) But this does not appear to be the case, unless you can provide us with verifiable cites to the contrary. Average Earthman 12:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment for newcomers. Maybe Ahmad Fatfat is doing a great job, maybe not; maybe this neologism is an insightful satire of Fatfat's ideology, maybe it's a sick joke. All that is completely irrelevant to this discussion! The aim of the debate here is to establish whether or not the concept of "Fatfatism" is sufficiently notable and widespread to deserve an article - not to discuss its merits. Skarioffszky 17:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete - Fatfatism is a current trend in the Arab world, I suggest you might want to remove the reference to Ahmad Fatfat, but keep the page.
  • Crush with a spoon. Neologism. Herostratus 17:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete - this is the process in which new ideas become validated, and fatfatism is a legitimate term being born today that will be used by historians and political scientists from here on after to help define shady political figures who share similar traits as fatfat. wikipedia should be enthusiastic about being the first encyclopedia in the world to have this very important term in their archive. Mabizeid 17:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC) — Mabizeid (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
    • Wikipedia isn't here to create and validate new ideas, it is here to reflect notable ideas. We are currently lacking any verifiable evidence that this term is notable. Average Earthman 12:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete -

Finally, after decades without a word that describes the political trend and ideology of many arab leaders, "fatfatism" is here to help :)
I am not going to discuss Ahmad Fatfat. But to answer some earlier comments:
- The term "fatfatism" was not started by an "anti-lebanese pro-syrian writer", but by a Lebanese Professor at Berkley!
- Fatfatism does not insult Lebanese or promote secterianism. Fatfatism is merely a term that described a certain attitude in politics followed by many arab leaders (it neither attacks Lebanese nor certain sects).
- As for the reliability of the Al-Akhbar newspaper, this newspaper only mentioned what As'as Abu Khalil defined as Fatfatism. (Also, the newspaper has proved to be reliable by always providing proofs. Check today's paper for an example - 07/12/06.)
One thing is true, the term is very recent, and not much references are available yet. But the term is spreading like fire! It is widespread now in Lebanon, and mentioned in several news outlets. And it is the only term that describes these specific political traits and ideology. There is a huge need for the term fatfatism, which actually explains why it's spreading quickly :) --129.215.212.170 18:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Do not delete: This term now is used in the news that praised wikipedia for allowing it on their pages. People in lebanon started using this term wh9ich means it will soon become a tradition in lebanon. Please leave the term on wikipedia.



Comment - Watch out, socks about... Debaser23 19:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not delete: The term Fatfatism is becoming a part of the everyday language in the streets of Beirut. It is to the credit of Wikipedia that newly developed terms in a spoken language are listed within weeks of their creation.--128.227.97.216 20:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete It is a neologism and it doesn't have a neutral point of view. NeoJustin 21:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news source. Given that Lebanon is hardly a primative backwater, 13 google hits for the term most of which are from one source suggest that this term has not achieved a critical mass that warrants its inclusion (usage of the term in a major national newspaper or a large number of blogs is needed, I feel). However, the requirement for neutrality does not require we avoid making any reference to notable attempts to discredit politicians by those who disagree with their policies, merely that we ensure that it is a report on the portrayal, rather than the portrayal itself. Average Earthman 21:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't Delete Definitely by now a widespread and much used term. It doesn't matter if some people don't like it! It's been published in many a newspapers and it is a standard phrase in many lebanese blogs! Homer58
    • Google can't find them. Please provide cites. Otherwise widespread use is non-verifiable. Average Earthman 12:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Still a relatively non-notable neologism. Wikipedia is NOT a source for such terms, only for terms that are already established. Terms should not become important because they are on Wikipedia. Also, the shear number of sockpuppetry and other similar nonsense going on in this AfD is

ridiculous. --The Way 03:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Do not delete Irrespectivly of whether we're pro or anti Ahmed Fatfat, the Fatfatism terminology is widely used in the Lebanese political scene. The 1st of December events including several hundreds of thousands of people included parodies of the "Fatfatist" school of politics. The term has been discussed in Lebanese newspapers as well. No reason to delete it.


  • DELETE - Homer58, Fatfatist, Mabizeid, Moonsear and Zabadani all smell like fake accounts to me for the pure reason that the only edits they seem to have made is on this page and the actual Fatfatism page. Look we're not stupid just making loads of fake accounts doesn't make this article notable. I'm still saying Delete. Debaser23 09:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
    • No, I don't think those are fake accounts or sockpuppets. Like me, they are probably readers of the Angry Arab blog, whose author directed his readers here ([1], [2]). That's why I tagged the page {{Not a ballot}}. Skarioffszky 11:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - Yes but it doesn't matter how many readers he directs here, it still doesn't make this page notable enough. Debaser23 11:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
    • 'Comment - I don't believe the users named above are sockpuppets (Homer58 has made contributions to an unrelated article sometime previously), but there are a number of new accounts that have so far only used to comment on this AfD. I'd also note that both delete and don't delete votes have come from accounts so far used only for this AfD. Average Earthman 12:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I am forced to make a comment anyway, on the ground that I added this article (the one on Fatfatism) to BJAODN. It seems like the picture, which was also deleted, made up the joke. Because the joke consisted mostly of the picture, it does BJAODN a disservice to have dropped the picture. Should I remove it from BJAODN? — Rickyrab | Talk 16:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.