Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fairmont Preparatory Academy

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.

Rationale: If we were headcounting, it's 7 keeps, 6 deletes, 1 merge.

Of the 7 keeps, the 1st (and hence the 3rd), the 4th and 5th 'keep's are based on it winning an award that fails WP:V, and WP:RS. The 2nd 'keep' vote (from Vsion) makes no sense and I've discounted it. The 6th keep (Audiobooks) gives no reason to keep based on policy, just states the school is notable and that's it. 7th (Catbag) is another 'per above).

The school is not the subject of multiple non-trivial sources that show notability, which is the reason given to keep by 5 of the 7 keep voters. The argument to keep is not based on policy. The argument to keep is, therefore, weak.

The argument to delete is based on the fact that the school is not the primary subject of multiple (or any) non-trivial sources that show notability. This is based on a policy of Wikipedia. This is, therefore, a strong argument to delete.

The argument to delete is stronger than that to keep. Therefore, delete. Proto::type 12:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fairmont Preparatory Academy

Non notable school, suggest deletion under WP:SCHOOL SkierRMH 21:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Meanwhile, I just reduced it to a stub because the entire thing was a cut and pasted copyright violation from http://www.fairmontschools.com/highschool.asp. wikipediatrix 21:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
• CommentFacts are not subject to copyright. Perhaps someone who wants this article could 1) take the facts suitable for a Wikipedia article and write them up to inform about the school without a copyvio; and 2) find some newspaper references (academic awards, sports championships, whatever) to provide the "multiple independent sources" we require. Edison 23:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete because of, as the title states, being non notable. Aetherfukz 23:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into a section at Anaheim, California and redirect. Nothing substantial here to warrant an individual article. RFerreira 06:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable as an International Baccalaureate school, part of the Blue Ribbon Schools Program, and for being the largest and oldest non-sectarian private school in the area. Silensor 02:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, over 50 years. --Vsion 04:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Assuming that indepedent sourcing can be found. Being a Blue Ribbon school is a claim of notability. JoshuaZ 20:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Changing to Delete per Pan Dan and Wikipediatrix's comments below. JoshuaZ 23:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thousands of schools have been awarded by the Blue Ribbon Schools Program, and the schools nominate themselves. Therefore, it's not exactly a highly distinctive award of recognition. Various government agencies hand out blue ribbons like sticks of gum, to various entities for various reasons. I don't think it automatically imparts notability. wikipediatrix 20:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Wikipediatrix. But we don't even have to argue the point in the abstract of whether being a Blue Ribbon school confers notability. We can just check to see whether multiple non-trivial sources independent of this school have taken note of its being a Blue Ribbon school. The answer is no (also checked Lexis-Nexis). So at least in this school's case, being a Blue Ribbon school doesn't help its case for notability. Pan Dan 20:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Like most schools, this one does not appear to be the primary subject of multiple (or any) non-trivial sources that show notability. Oddly enough, zero results in a Lexis-Nexis search even of local papers. The attributes listed by Silensor can be argued to be claims to notability only if, at a minimum, they are noted by sources independent of the school. But as far as I can tell, they aren't. Pan Dan 20:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per silensor.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 22:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep The school has been recognized by the Blue Ribbons School Program, the highest award granted by the United States Department of Education. It may not be the Medal of Honor, but I'd rank it a notch below. For all those deletionist extremists who would like to claim that this award is no more valuable than a "stick of gum" or that the fact that "schools nominate themselves" diminishes its value in any way, here's the official description of the process: How Are Schools Chosen? The Department convenes the National Review Panel to evaluate the nominations. The panel consists of approximately 100 outstanding public and private school educators from the elementary, secondary, and postsecondary levels. Based on the quality of the application, the most promising schools are recommended for site visits. The purpose of a visit is to verify the accuracy of the information the school has provided in its nomination form and to gather any additional information the panel has requested. Experienced educators, including principals of previously recognized schools, visit and observe the schools for two days and submit written site visit reports. The National Review Panel considers the reports in its final review of applicants and makes to the U.S. Secretary of Education, who then announces the names of the schools selected for recognition. Deletionism depends on ignorance and denial, and we see it here in action. Given the rigorous selection criteria for the program, I think it's clear that any school that has been awarded a Blue Ribbon has the strongest possible claim of notability. Alansohn 02:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Its hard to see something as a claim of notability when the school hasn't recieved in the least press coverage over it. Also, the claim that it is the "strongest possible claim of notability" seems to be hyperbole at best. Hopkins School, Eton, Stuyvesant and others have far stronger claims of notabilty. JoshuaZ 02:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment Reword for the benefit of those in denial of the explicit claim of notability: Recognition by the Blue Ribbon Schools Program grants the recipient a claim that is among the strongest possible claims of notability for a school. Do you deny that the United States Department of Education thoroughly researches and verifies all applications and that the winners have demonstrated a clear level of achievement? In the continuum, is a school that has been so recognized no more notable than a stick of gum? Your claim re press coverage is entirely worthless. Do you believe that every 15-year-old newspaper article is available online, and that your fruitless efforts to find such an article prove anything? Is a source from the United States Department of Education not reliable and verifiable? This is deletionism at its worst. Alansohn 02:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment I'm not claiming that the statement is false but simply that we cannot find any sources. And if a source did exist it would likely turn up on Lexis-Nexis even if it were 15 years old. The bottom line is that we have no evidence whatsoever that this school's Blue Ribbon is all that notable, and if not a single news source saw fit to even mention it, it is difficult to see it as a claim of notability. JoshuaZ 02:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        • Comment: I don't trust the government for a lot of things, but do you think that the United States Department of Education is not a valid and reliable source for this information in full compliance with WP:RS and WP:V. I think the selection criteria listed above and the fact that it is the nation's highest award for a school makes it one of the strongest possible claims of notability that an American school can possibly make? Besides, as the late, great Carl Sagan has been quoted, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Alansohn 15:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
          • Reply re: do you think that the United States Department of Education is not a valid and reliable source for this information in full compliance with WP:RS and WP:V: You misunderstand the issue here. The problem with the Blue Ribbon thing is notability, not just whether it's true. There has to be non-trivial coverage, independent of both the giver of the award and the recipient of the award, before you can begin to argue that the receiving of the award is notable. Of course, the giver and the recipient will both issue press releases, but that's not independent coverage, obviously. Also, the recipient may be included on lists of recipients of the award, or in wire service blurbs, but those aren't non-trivial. Now, re: "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Please. We need evidence of appropriate sources to establish notability. We don't assume notability by default. Pan Dan 17:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep another well-referenced, award winning school article. Looks like an obvious keeper to me based on our non-existent past and present guidelines on the subject. --JJay 13:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Notability is not established. If the award were truly distinguishing, the school's receiving of the award would garner non-trivial attention from independent sources. But here, apparently, even the local press ignored it. Pan Dan 17:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
• keep notable school that won award!!! Audiobooks 21:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete: non notable award, non notable organization (IBO), and non notable claim to fame (the largest? It's hard to tell from the link, but it looks like it may be one of the smallest as well, when you narrow your category that far). No WP:V coverage that indicates anything beyond existing. (And please, don't close this kind of discussion as a clear keep when it is rather obvious that that is not the case). Fram 15:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above; IBO is certainly a notable organization, by the way. Citing WP:SCHOOL is ridiculous as WP:SCHOOL is simply a proposal. Catbag 06:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply: I expressed myself incorrectly: I meant that receiving that award (Blue Ribbon) and being a member of the organization (IBO) not mean that you are notable (both events have not received much media coverage, it appears), but I erroneously said that the award and the organization in itself are not notable, which is of course something completely different and not true. 07:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.