Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exmortis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Non-notable fancruft. --Ezeu 20:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exmortis

Not particularly notable flash game. Seems to fail WP:V/WP:RS/WP:WEB. Delete as such. Wickethewok 18:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Delete - Somebody put some work into the article, looks mostly promotional though. Chris Kreider 18:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - I'd like to hear from somebody who has actually played the game before deciding either way. The article is nicely composed (as Chris mentioned) and the fact that the game is apparently a trilogy might make this a very weak keep. -bobby 18:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom; I changed various subpages to redirects. The Book of the Exmortis had already been changed to a redirect by Xezbeth (talk ·  contribs), and Lord Vlaew was merged by IceCreamAntisocial (talk ·  contribs). There are a lot of ghits, but that's to be expected with a flash game. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:33, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• DO NOT DELETE I have actually played both games and I am the author of this article. This game is truly revolutionary and has actually gone beyond much of what is considered "routine" in the flash game genre. The purpose of this article is not promotional, rather, I am trying to put an article describing a notable game. Wikipedia has articles on Sonic the Hedgehog and Mario, are these any less "particularly" notable? Exmortis is very notable: 1) It pushes the boundaries of the flash game genre. 2) The first game has been played by over 5 million people and the second game by 1.3 million. This has an impact in the gaming world. And while I understand you can get a lot of hits on the internet, for a game to be on the internet for only a month or so, and receive this much attention, is, in many ways unheard of. I have contributed a little over 20 articles to wikipedia, and I put a lot of hard work and effort into them. I do not want to see this article be abitrarily deleted, because certain individuals think it is "not particular notable." User:Ladb2000

• Notability, isn't just something that some editors "feel" is not notable. There are objective criteria, which includes a lack of reliable 3rd party sources on the subject. Under Wikipedia's verifiability policy, all information must be verifiable via a published reliable source. This is nothing personal against your article. Wickethewok 21:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think my sources are well documented, showing the creator's page, the critical reception, an interview, as well as links to the two games, so that people if they so choose, can experience for themselves what everything else is. And I beg to differ, but in this case, notability is very much about what some editors feel. I have provided adequate sources, and a well-written article to describe a game that has, in many respects, taken the flash genre by storm. If that isn't notable, then I really don't know what is. So once again, I urge you to please reconsider deleting this article. User:Ladb2000

• The sources you gave aren't exactly credible... a couple of freehosted walkthroughs and some Newgrounds links...? WP:RS provides some good material on what constitutes a reliable source if you're interested. Wickethewok 22:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• I might add that you are also a very demanding editor. I checked out your user site. Most editors wouldn't care about the nitty-gritty that you are caring about. I am not referring to the walkthroughs or the new ground links only, I am referring to the interview with Ben Leffler and Ben Leffler's update site/blog on the development of Exmortis 3. While I respect the high standards you are asking for, I have to just state that if you are going to delete this article on the basis that I don't have enough sources or enough "reliable" sources (especially considering that this is a flash game, does not seem entirely fair to me. User:Ladb2000

• Blogs are specifically not reliable sources according to WP:RS#Self-published_sources. I don't think its overly demanding to ask for some third-party reliable sources. Other amateur games have been featured in gaming magazines, IGN reviews, and what have you, I don't see why this game should be exempt from the same standards we hold other products to. Wickethewok 22:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The point is, that this game is not a product. The creator has made nothing out of these games. As such, reviews of the kind that you are asking about are harder to come by. Blogs and the like are the only sources that I have found so far.User:Ladb2000

• Don't Delete Might not be world-famous, but the games have developed a cult following.--CyberGhostface 20:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Do not delete. The rules of citation in Wikipedia exist to ensure the quality and encyclopedia-worthiness of the articles. A well written article about a flash game that has been played by millions of people is clearly encyclopedia-worthy. Documentation of the type desired is not possible, because official references on this game do not exist, but because the game is significant, the spirit rather than the letter of the rules on citation should be followed in this case, and the article should be allowed to remain. User:Kier07

• Do Not Delete. Blogs may not always be the most reliable sources, but Ben Leffler's blog is a primary source. Since Ben Leffler is the creator of the games, any information he gives out will probably be most accurate. This article is well-written, and documents a landmark in internet gaming.--Tusserte 18:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.