Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erfan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Claims of failing WP:MUSIC - the applicable guideline here - have not been debunked. Proto ► 12:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erfan

Erfan (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Article appears to be written with the intention of self-promotion only. Google results for (erfan hip hop -wikipedia) returns 679 hits while (erfan rap -wikipedia) returns 861. Most returned links seem to either be links to MySpace, blogs or YouTube. Not signed to any major record labels as far as I can tell and his notability has not been established as required by the criteria provided by the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guidelines.  Netsnipe  ►  11:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• delete per nomination Cornell Rockey 17:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. An embarressment to Wikipedia. Todd661 07:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete' per nom. Clear bias, non-notable. Suriel1981 15:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Guys, interesting point of view and appreciate your work in keeping wiki clean and to the point. While your point maybe be valid for other such articles, the creation of this article initially by me was to introduce a new artist as well as a new movement in "Iranian" music to the world and specially the Persian-American community living outside of Iran. I would like to open this discussion with you on the merits of deleting this article based on the points raised with in this page.

A - Article appears to be written with the intention of self-promotion only: This is not true, the content of this article originally comes from the underground Persian magazine called Zirzamin which did an article as well as an interview with Erfan in 2006 when his first two singles were released. The article was then later published by www.persianhiphop.com as well as www.021-music.com, the text of the interview can be found at: http://www.zirzamin.se/interviews/inter_2006/erfan.html

At the same time, Erfan has had interview's with major Persian alternative music magazines and E-zines including: 1- Radio Javan: http://www.radiojavan.com 2- Zirzamin Magazine: http://www.zirzamin.se/ 3- Iranian.com: http://www.iranian.com/ 4- Bebin.tv interview: go to http://www.bebin.tv/ and scroll to get to it or direct link on you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF6ta-sdtK0 5- BBC interview coming out soon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/, detailed in the BBC employee Behzad Bolour's blog http://www.behzadbolour.com/ 6- He is currently in the process of signing with major record label (http://www.avang.com/) which should be compeleted in a week from what I've heard, he is currently with underground label Major Records(http://www.majorrecordsinc.com/), his album which is competleted is to be released in a few weeks with Avang Music company (http://www.avang.com/) as the first major release of a Persian Hip Hop CD. Feel free to contact them for more information.

Again I understand your concern as a dedicated member of the Wikipedia community, but your lack of knowledge about the Persian Hiphop movement will obfuscate your judgement on the validity of this article. If you want to discuss this more, I can talk to you and put you in contact with all the above people to legitimize the details of the Erfan page. At the same time, you don't speak Persian so you are missing out on lots of information about this artist as well as lack understanding if his lyrics and poetry, the interviews, ETC.

B - Google results for (erfan hip hop -wikipedia) returns 679 hits while (erfan rap -wikipedia) returns 861. Most returned links seem to either be links to MySpace, blogs or YouTube: Just because you did a "string" google search and came across what you refer to as "seem to either be links to MySpace, blogs or YouTube" is not a good reseason to pass judgement on something. The persian blog community is one of the largest in the world (Iran is the fourth largest country for bloggers (sourced from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Blogs ). Because of strong censorship in Iran, the bulk of newspapers, writers and free thinkers use the medium of blogs to express their opinion and pass information to the community. Iran has the worse reputation for freedom of speech and has been labeled the biggest enemy of publications (reporters without borders: http://www.rsf.org/country-43.php3?id_mot=92) as well as the Iranian government has actively started blacklisting websites (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=21052). So for most people, blogs are the only way to pass information, do not discredit it based on "your" personal opinion. Again just because you found something on google, doesn't mean this article is not valid. If you are not happy with the format, then please include what specifically you think is "opinionated" and we can move on from there to make it better or possibly correct incorrect information.

C - Not signed to any major record labels as far as I can tell and his notability has not been established as required by the criteria provided by the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guidelines: The guidelines states:

1- It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable: Details are listed above, let me know if you need anything else. He is not 50 cent being pushed by a giant such as "Interscope", or SONY, yet he is signed to a hip hop label currently and is finalizing his contract with the biggest Persian record company in the world, he is releasing his CD in a month. 2- per the notability clause of wikipedia, he matches clause "SIX" which states "Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability. " 3- also in the notability clause, section "other", part 3 states "Has established a tradition or school in a particular genre", he has created the genre Persian Hip Hop as stated in major Iranian national radio, go to http://www.radiojavan.com/music/interviews.php, search for Erfan, listed among the major Iranian musicians, interview in Farsi, hope you understand it. also article "4" stating "Has composed a number of melodies, tunes or standards used in a notable genre, or tradition or school within a notable genre." as well as "Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture. ", sub-culture being the new genre of "Persian hip-hop".

All the above was to cover the concerns of "Netsnipe", as far as "Cornellrockey" is concerned, he makes no specific points. I have nothing to add to "Todd661", he makes no sense and as someone making a claim on this page, I expect him to be more professional, your comment comes across as childish.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adelhaj (talk • contribs).

• Do Not Delete: Article was cleaned a bit more based on "non detailed" reports from this group, I have also detailed reasons above on keeping this article, please review and give feedback. Still waiting on a case by case dialog on this article, "non-notable" is not acceptable, if we are discussing something, then it should be opened up for detailed discussion, you can't convict someone without a trial, you have to have a case! To my understanding another beauty of Wikipedia is collaboration on articles, I started this and have maintained but an article such as this or any other grows over time with contribution from all, you can't say there are many complete articles on this site since they are evolving all the time anyway, I'm starting to think this one is getting picked on!Adelhaj 10:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• • Comment. Ok, My above comment was probably not as detailed as it should be. The article seems to be about a non-notable identity. Notability is a cornerstone of Wikipedia Policy and is perfect justification and perfectly acceptable for an AfD debate - a place for discussion. User:Efran and User:Adelhaj have made repeated claims as to the subjects notability, yet the ARTICLE does not make this clear. Moreover, there are several other issues with the article, such as it opening with a quote (violates WP:LEAD), having more external links than is necessary (against WP:EXTERNAL) and sentences such as He is not into creating the fusion of Persian music elements in his music but believe it or not he thinks in Persian and he raps in Persian and he talks to his folk through his own Persian Hip Hop style which has the word heor his seven times! But those are cleanup issues, and not for AfD debate and that is why the above Keep Votes have not recieved any feedback on the quality of the article. This article was brought to AfD because there is no claim to notability. No matter how many times I am called me childish, or how many times you say Notability doesn't matter, I will endorse my Delete vote until Notability is addressed. Todd661 04:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

• The article is a POV mess, written like a press release. The real question here, are "Radio Javan" and "Zirzamin Magazine" sufficient reliable sources to meet the media coverage requirement of WP:MUSIC? Neither have English wikipedia articles. "Zirzamin Magazine" receives 7 unique Ghits, but looks like it might be real (site). "Radio Javan" fares much better (333 unique Ghits), and the site appears legit. Therefore, it appears this may meet the bare bones requirements of WP:MUSIC and I vote Weak keep, contingent upon the complete removal of all the steaming piles of pro-Erfan POV. -- Scientizzle 16:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I've de-POVed it some... -- Scientizzle 17:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: Scientizzle, thanks for taking the time to contribute to this article for de-POV, I've tried to explain the case for legitimate Media outlets, there are not many sites that comment on Iranian hiphop, it's a new thing and there are more sites soon that will be publishing details on Erfan. If a keep is cool with the guys here, I can spend sometime in the next few weeks, reading on other artists and de_PV'ing this thing more, WORK WORK WORK is keeping me occupied, hate to see this page go for "now", I'm sure that it will be back up in a month with better links and coverage. It looks good after Scientizzle edit, anyone else have comments on this. Cheers—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adelhaj (talk • contribs).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.