Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ephrosinia Lukarevic

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE —Whouk (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ephrosinia Lukarevic

delete. Some kind of fantasy work. A fairy tale, not an encyclopedic article, and about a nonnotable person, too, judging from the text. Mukadderat 02:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: the page has now been listed as a copyright violation at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2006 May 19/Articles. up+land 14:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete--WP:NOT free host. -- stubblyhead | ^T/_c 02:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete per nom. -- Irixman ^{(t) (m)} 03:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete See User_talk:Ragusino (author's page) this isn't the first time. jbolden1517^Talk 04:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete The author displays a vivid imagination and even achieves a degree of lyricism, but WP is not the place to create "prose poetry" or a "postmodern fairy tale" or whatever the heck this is. Do good work elsewhere, please, Ragusino (talk · contribs). Or else try your hand at writing an encylopedia article---CH 07:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Uh oh! Checking contribs of Ragusino (talk · contribs) suggests there might be a more widespread problem. I am worried that these might also be hoaxes (not as obvious):

1. House of Gondola I can't seem to find obviously independent information via Google.
2. House of Ghetaldi reads in part " the brother of Segismondo Francesco was adoptive of your uncle Segismondo Count of Gondola" Huh?
3. Trojan Gundulić I'd like a Serbian speaker who we can verify is not Ragusino to take a look at these alleged images of pages of historic books. Is it just me? Something about these figures doesn't look quite right to me, almost as if someone is creating these images on a computer, rather than scanning genuine books.

---CH 08:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

My impression: these three are not a hoax, but as far as the Houses are concerned: original unverifiable research (Ragusino on User talk:Ragusino re Ghetaldi-Gondola Genialogie (sic): "All the text and investigation is MINE!!, my investigation of my family, take more than 1 year, of different archive /Dubrovnik, Merano, Zadar, Vienne, Graz, Venice, etc"). The website for the Four Gospels exolink on Trojan Gundulić looks too professional to be part of a hoax. I think the appearance of the bible page is due to a filter for removing noise from the blank parts. --Lambiam^Talk 11:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

You are probably right, Lambian. ---CH 02:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strongly support deletion unless someone can provide objective verification. If not proven true, I would also support deletion of the other suspected articles. -- SockpuppetSamuelson 08:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

If proven true, on the other hand, this will be extremely notable. Lady Ephrosinia gave birth to a bearded little man with spurs on his bare feet, who entered the world crying, "A hungry Greek will even to heaven go," bit off his own umbilical cord, and rushed off, grabbing not clothes but a cap and calling for his sister by name. --Lambiam^Talk 11:12, May 19, 2006 (UTC)

• With respect, I am

-- assuming good faith and

-- allowing for the possibility that a good article has been vandalised by (political or ethical) opponents -- SockpuppetSamuelson 13:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• Research, then either delete or weak keep --Ouro 09:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete per nom. - Nick C 09:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• No opinion on the rest, but Trojan Gundulić appears to be a real 16th century printer. The article needs some good sources. All I can come up with are some mentions in passing in JSTOR and Google Books, but neither is necessarily very useful for South Slavic book history. up+land 11:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Ephrosinia Lukarevic as a copyright violation and fiction, but keep Trojan Gundulić, House of Gondola, and House of Ghetaldi and move them to userspace awaiting better references. As already pointed out Trojan Gundulić is clearly real, and there is enough both in House of Gondola and House of Ghetaldi that appear real that there is a good reason not to just summarily delete them just because little can be found through Google. Ivan Gundulić, mentioned in one of the articles, is certainly a real and very notable poet. A Joseph Sigismund Reichsgraf von Gondola, "auch: Gundulic", apparently a Benedictine author, has an entry in WBIS Online, as do a number of people named Gondola with given names such as Francesco and Sigismondo, who appear to be members of the family of this article. These Italian/Croatian noble families ought to be verifiable in Austro-Hungarian printed sources or other references covering Central European nobility, as well as possibly Italian biographical reference works. There is no reason to assume that they are "unverifiable" until these works have actually been checked. We clearly have a problem in this case with systemic bias in both the most easily available, googlable sources and in some of the databases I have access to, but there are enough indications that these are real historical people of some importance in their own time and place. Let the author work on them a bit more in his userspace and present good printed sources that readers can check. up+land 12:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I second that: delete this article and move the others to the author's userspace. ---CH 02:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The following, from Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Ephrosinia Lukarevic, explains the origin of the text:

• This is a passage lifted verbatim from Milorad Pavic's novel Dictionary of the Khazars. It has no reason to be on Wikipedia, particularly without citing its source. Delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalamansi (talk • contribs)
• Delete; it's purely original fantasy work. -HubHikari 16:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

So apparently it's NOT original but copyvio. --Lambiam^Talk 19:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• Remark. If one wants Trojan Gundulić, House of Gondola, and House of Ghetaldi to be userfied, they first have to be nominated for deletion; you can't just piggyback like this on another nomination. --Lambiam^Talk 22:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree. They have not been tagged, hence not nominated. But before anybody considers nominating them, please consider asking the author for references first, and then userfying as an alternative to deletion. If the author can do some more work on them, they may end up perfectly fine, verifiable biographical articles. up+land 22:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.