Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/England and Wales

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 12:11Z

[edit] England and Wales

- - :England and Wales (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

All of the material on this page is already present in the entry on Wales. It is also better handled there. England and Wales has no particular meaning when there are entries for England, Wales, Britain and the United Kingdom --Snowded 22:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep, Exists as a legal entity. A widely used term. Lots of links, most of which would not be approriate for redirection to Wales. G-Man * 22:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect to the English law article. I agree with the nominator that all the information contained in the article is duplicated, and better presented, elsewhere. Most of the incoming links should actually be linking to both the England and the Wales articles, not this. Where it genuinely does refer to the legal enity (see State (law)) then it ought to just be redirected to that article. -- Mais oui! 22:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep but it needs work. There are occasions when England and Wales are treated as a single entity, as there are occasions when England and Wales are regarded as separate nations. This is a good place to explain why. MortimerCat 22:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
England and Wales are never treated as a State, that role is the United Kingdom or Great Britain (both of which have entries). They have a common legal system which also has an entry. All cross references to England and Wales are simply names of societies that would be better served by England and Wales. --Snowded 05:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
State was bad choice of words, I have changed it to entity. When the United Kingdom was formed, England and Wales were regarded as a single item. That is why the Union Jack has no Welsh element. The fact that England and Wales are more inter-related than England and Scotland is an important historical fact. This article is the place to highlight this, and how it still effects the modern country. The article has been greatly improved by the recent addition of the sections. MortimerCat 09:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
The page on Wales makes the linkage clear (it is not so present on the England article). It is an historical fact that should be reflected in articles on the United Kingdom and in the articles for Wales and England. There is no need for a separate article on this subject alone.--Snowded 19:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep An distinct legal entity in United Kingdom law, a seperate article such as this is entirely appropriate. --Canley 02:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep but improve, per MortimerCat. England and Wales is a single entity for the purposes of UK law and cricket, and probably other things too. A good article here would help resolve some confusion better than a section buried in England or Wales could. — mholland 02:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Had the article been " a critical article in the law and constitution of the United Kingdom" it would have been OR, but it isn't a critical article but a short lightweight article on matters covered better elsewhere. Merge if you can find anything to merge. DGG 05:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. "England-and-Wales" exists; it deserves an article. G-Man's point about incoming links is important. It goes without saying that it seriously needs improvement, of course. (The sport section, e.g., is currently content-free and could be deleted without a tear being shed.) But bear in mind that not EVERY article in the Wikipedia needs to be a long disquisition; just because an article will never be an FA doesn't mean we should delete it. Doops | talk 07:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete or Merge per Orthologist All of the relevent info can be covered in the articles on England and Wales. TJ Spyke 09:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep but seriously rework - for civil registration England and Wales is a single entity and this needs pointing out in addition to all the other stuff above. -- Roleplayer 10:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong keep - exists as a legal and statistical entity "Statistics for England and Wales" gets 27000 Google hits for such things as law and order,[1] health,[2] fisheries [3], you name it. Yes this needs to be in the article, but incomplete information is not grounds for deletion. Totnesmartin 13:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Incomplete is not, but unnecessary is. The entires for the United Kingdom could easily include this. All the references to this article are for organisations that have welsh and english membership and the article addes no value to those. The statistical material is self evident on the relevant articles and if someone wants the full history then it is laid out in the Wales article in some detail.
My point wasn't about the material, but about the entity. There are loads of articles for statistical areas, census regions etc. This is one of them. Totnesmartin 13:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I think if the article was called "Statistical Area: England and Wales" and was a simple statement of links then I can see an argument. However "England and Wales" attracts the sort of meaningless, better handled elsewhere material which is currently there. Overall I remain convinced that this is one of those many examples or articles for articles sake and if something adds no value it should be removed.--Snowded 14:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep England and Wales is a legal entity with a sinlge system of law, destinct from that of Scotland and Northern Ireland. This has been the case since the Act of Union in 1536, though sicne the creation of a separate Welsh office and more recently the Assembly, some divergecne is probable. Peterkingiron 00:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - the article is about the legal system in England an Wales. Lofty 15:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - Whilst this is not a particularly great article, the subject matter should certainly be included in an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia. I know no policy that would require this article to be deleted, I am sure in time it will develop into a worthy entry. Rje 10:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.