Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emma Bentley

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. ELIMINATORJR TALK 15:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emma Bentley

Emma Bentley (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

PROD added by User:ZincBelief and contested by User:Emmabentleysdad. PROD was re-added, so bringing it here to AFD instead. Reason for PROD stated as "Emma Bentley is not a notable Chess player and the article is poorly sourced and poorly written". Note that User:Emmabentleysdad has stated he is in fact Emma Bentley's father so there are potential WP:COI issues. Much of the discussion is not on the article page but is on User talk:Emmabentleysdad. I am !voting weak keep on this one with rather minor BBC coverage. Whpq 13:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually I don't think anyone has contested the deletion so far. One user left a message on my talk page saying they deleted the template by accident (edit conflict) --ZincBelief 13:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
That's right. The original Speedy Deletion was declined by User:NawlinWiki with the comment "decline speedy, asserts notability, take to AFD if you want". -- Whpq 13:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Emma Bentley's father appears to be the English Chess Federation's Junior Publicity Officer as well. I think that may be relevent to the WP:COI--ZincBelief 14:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

1422 is not a notable chess grade, it is nowhere near the top echelon. World Champions are above 2700, Grandmasters above 2500, International Grandmasters above 2400. Emma has never won an official junior world championship, she has won an international competition run by Susan Polgar. She has not won a competition in an age category senior to her own - for example English U16 girls category. She has not won an English junior category (meaning male and female competitors) as far as I can tell. I am sure Emma is a nice young lady, and I wish her all the best in her chess career. However, there are thousands upon thousands of chess players out there with a 1422 rating, thousands of chess players who have won junior competitions. Ok, so for publicity they put her onto a magazine or local tv, but she is not a notable chess player. She has not acheived a significant title or result that would meet wikipedia's criteria for inclusion. The article is also rather short on detail, and is basically just a small list which seems to have been written by her dad. Here ends my opinion.--ZincBelief 13:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The grading lists, http://grading.bcfservices.org.uk/engjuniors.php ecf top juniors and http://grading.bcfservices.org.uk/engtopgirls.php ecf top girls are also relevant for this assessment. As somebody else said, a few years yet before she is going to be noteable.--ZincBelief 18:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Correction - The article history was that it was CSD'd and that was declined by Nawlinwiki. Emma's father didn't remove the tag or contest it except verbally on his talkpage and by adding references etc. User:KirkEnd removed the PROD. Thanks to User:Slp1 for pointing this out to me. Apologies for any confusion created by me. -- Whpq 13:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Further clarification on the removal of the prod - this was not done intentionally, I was in the middle of trying to neutralise/wikify the article when the prod was placed and I accidentally saved over that version. As soon as I realised I contacted ZincBelief and asked him/her to replace it. For the record my vote is a weak delete on the basis that now all the POV and unsourced statements have been removed it is, as ZincBelief, states simply a small list of apparently unremarkable achievements. KirkEnd aka • nancy • talk to me • 13:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete, She has done pretty good, but still doesn't seem to meet notability requirements and the article doesn't assert any reason to exist except as a list of accomplishements. No context, almost back patting. Maybe in a few years. Pharmboy 14:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete insuffiently notable. imagine, spamming for your kids.Montco 22:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: subject does not come close to fulfilling any of the WP:BIO criteria. Players like those listed at chess prodigy deserve articles; Emma's got a long way to go... youngvalter 01:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: Probable COI and not sufficiently notable at this point. I hope she will be in the future. Bubba73 (talk), 02:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
In addition, the 1422 is a provisional rating based on one six-round tournament. I can't find her on any USCF top 100 lists, by ager or girls under 13, see this. I think provisional ratings are not included on the list, and 1422 is not near the top anyway. Bubba73 (talk), 02:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Even if her rating was established instead of provisional, she would be tied for #64 of Ten-year-olds in the USCF and tied for #32 in USCF girls under 13. I still wish her great success in the future, she has a pretty good start. Bubba73 (talk), 04:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete the fact that she's rated way below a GM may not matter, if she was a notable prodigy for her age, but I don't see evidence that she is. (For an example of a true prodigy, Judit Polgar had a rating around 2200, and defeated an IM, when she was 10). Winning a national age championship isn't sufficiently notable, or there'd be thousands. The only thing which might make her notable is winning the Susan Polgar "World" U11 girls' championship, but for me that probably isn't sufficient. I wish her all the well, but I don't think she's sufficiently notable yet. Also COI issues as already mentioned. Peter Ballard 04:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. She may not be highly ranked in the grand scheme of things, but the fact remains that she has won both the national title for her age group and an international competition. Those are not achievements to be dismissed lightly. JulesH 14:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, she has only won the national girls title for her age group and an international competition (i don't know if that was for girls only or not). Just a point of information.--ZincBelief 15:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
The international competition was a girls' only, under 11, competition. And it was privately (or at least semi-privately) run, not the official FIDE world age group title. (FIDE under age girls-only competitions do exist, and their winners generally are not listed on Wikipedia either). Winning it was still a fine achievement, of course, but not enough to make her notable. Because if the competition is not notable enough to be listed on Wikipedia (and it's not), then to me it follows that winning that competition does not automatically make a person notable. Peter Ballard 13:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
She was the only international player in that competition; all the other players were from the States. And international competitions aren't a big deal anyway - it doesn't look like any sort of qualification process was necessary. youngvalter 20:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.