Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eminence Symphony Orchestra

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep both. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 11:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eminence Symphony Orchestra

Autobiographical and notability concerns. The page also is basically a press release, misusing wikipedia for advertising. Em-El 09:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because of autobiographical concerns:

Hiroaki_Yura

Em-El 09:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep for Eminence, Delete for Hirokaki Yura. For eminence, there are no notability councerns. A google test for "Eminence Symphony" gets 100 thousand + hits. The orchestra also stands out for being popular amoungst people who aren't the usual orchestra crowd, as its choice of music is unusual (unusual as in unusal compared to most orchestras) comprising mostly of fantasy, video game and anime music. Many concerts, three albums released, not to mention they've been noted in reliable sources (see references for articles about Eminence from some of Australia's biggest newspapers). Compare with other australia orchestral articles like Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, Adelaide Youth Orchestra and Barrier Reef Orchestra. It's defintely notable enough for us to write about. Not sure about what you mean by autobiographical concerns, please clarify. Article is not a press release or misusing wikipedia. Section on staff and albums could possibly be cut down. And some more information on their history and choice of music would be nice. The fact that the article has been almost completely written by one user, who has made almost all their edits on this article is worrying. All that means is the article needs some more people do help by doing a bit of research and writing, and tidying up. But the article isn't advertising - although one could say it is one-sided, and it's certainly not un-notable. --`/aksha 10:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
  • comment this is probably not assuming the best of faith, but i can't help but feel slightly suspicious about the fact that the person who nominated this article was an anon ip who has made no other edits on wikipedia, and seems to have created an account only to create this deletion page. I have to wonder whether the nominator is making this nomination because he or she has something to do with Eminence in real life. --`/aksha 11:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
    • The google test is insufficient as one would need to put that in quotes, because of the commonness of the two words "eminence" and "symphony" and "orchestra." If you google the whole phrase you get less than 750. My main concern was the fact that it was all one person. That's what I meant by autobiograhpical. It seems to me that everything the person has written is written to advertise the symphony. I mean, who says "bold, dynamic and fresh" if you're not associated with the project? Also that phrase is taken directly from the "About us" section of the website- http://www.eminenceonline.com/2006/index.php?display=about_eminence Leading further to the belief that the one guy who seems to maintain this article s also associated with that page.
    • I also added Hiroaki Yura because it's related to this page as it seems to be the leader of this group and the same guy who maintains this article has also edited that one. It seems too much like vanity to me.
    • (I have made many contributions to wikipedia but have never made an account. I guess my cable provider gives out dynamic IPs. It's true I made the account to nominate this, but that's because I finally decided to "make the jump" as an editor.) Em-El 12:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
      • hmm...the intro does portray the group very positively. But at the same time, the newspaper articles (which are a genuin third party source) very much do so as well. Though phrases being taken directly from their group's own website is a big problem. The article defintely needs work, especially in terms of neutrality. It's already been tagged with cleanup as i speak. In terms of notability, i still don't think it's an issue. Eminence "Canberra Symphony Orchestra" gets me only about 800, which is about the same amount i get for eminance, so i'm not so sure how reliable this is. Google test aside, i think the face that Eminance has been documated by two of Australia's largest newspapers means a lot.
      • I'm going to hold onto keep. The article is notable, it just needs work, and neutrality, but i don't think deletion is suitable. However, i will change to delete for Kiroaki Yura. I've changed my ealier statement accordinly. --`/aksha 13:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
• Weak KeepA search of EBBSCO's Australia New Zealand database comes up with 4 references. Google News Archives comes up with one in Gameplanet see in Gameplanet. [1] The references in the newspaper articles refer to performances in relation to computer gaming. The performances referred to the article don't seem to have been regularly reviewed by the Australian press or the reviews aren't on EBBSCO's database. May be worth keeping but marginal. Capitalistroadster 03:27, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 03:27, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Eminence Symphony Orchestra and merge the founder's article into it. No reason to discard any information here. Dekimasu 03:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

• To clarify, I am the creator and main editor of this page. I apologise for the occasional anon IP, that's my fault for not being logged in. I also was not registered early on, so that helps explain. I am the senior production co-ordinator from Eminence, thus I am in a position that gives me the most knowledge to write this information. I have written in as best I can so it doesn't come off as an advertisement, and wrote it in an informative passive way. I have avoided using terms like 'greatest group' etc for this reason. I must stress that this initially went up to be informative, and that it shall stay. Given that we are an orchestra and we perform to a sizable audience I believe it to be fitting to have an entry here to reflect this. I list the staff so the public knows who is behind the concerts, though if the Wiki community so desires I can shorten this. My main point here is that I as an Eminence staff member have been editing this, and therefore Wikipedia will not run into copyright issues. I create the majority of the text on our website and programme booklets therefore I am able to replicate this in a passive manner. I should have mentioned all this earlier, I apologise. Eminence fully condones the use of their logo and this article, that is not an issue. Should the article on Hiroaki Yura be requested for a merger I am happy to do so, I did not create it. Given my lack of direct Wikipedia experience I apologise if we have broken rules or created content incorrectly. - Nephtis 11:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete or Merge Hiroaki Yura; Keep Eminence Symphony Orchestra, per Dekimasu. Vectro 16:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I'm not sure where to put an addition to my argument, so I'll put it with my other comments. By article's creator's own admission, this article is in clear violation of the guideline WP:AB (To quote: "You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved"). Em-El 03:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment That's true. But i don't think it's appropriate to delete an article for AB violation. Put it this way, if ESO is not notable, then it should be deleted for being so. If we decide ESO is notable, but delete the article. Then the next person who comes along to create the article will have to start from scratch. So it's better if we keep the article, trim off anything that is violating Wikipedia's content policies (such as Neutrality and verificability), and leave the article there for other people to improve. I don't think the entire article is violating any wikipedia content policies enough to warrant deletion. --`/aksha 05:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
• I welcome any editor to accomodate my article, and if it is not objectionable to the editors, I will continue to add future concerts and albums to the page. Should notes be given in the editing page, I will adhere to them (such as not to include certain information etc) Nephtis
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletions. -- `/aksha 06:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Eminence and merge founder as above. enochlau (talk) 10:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep orchestra article; merge founder. (JROBBO 04:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC))

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.