Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emily Clay

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Redmarkviolinist's passionate defense of the article notwithstanding, this person does not come close to meeting our notability guideline for athletes. Only in the rarest of circumstances are high school athletes notable enough for Wikipedia; examples would be LeBron James and O.J. Mayo, who had their high school games nationally televised, were regularly featured in magazines such as Sports Illustrated and programs such as SportsCenter, Around the Horn and Pardon the Interruption. Ms. Clay should be commended for her achievement, but let's be honest about what she did: she set an obscure high school record in a fairly unpopular sport (relatively speaking, no offense intended). When she competes at the Olympics or whatever the world championship is for her sport, then she'll be deserving of an article, but breaking a high school record, while it's something to be proud of, does not merit an encyclopedia entry. faithless (^speak) 07:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Emily Clay

Emily Clay (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

High school athlete, from what I can tell probably not notable due to a lack of significant coverage by reliable, independent sources. Guest9999 (talk) 21:51, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

See some of my responses below, but considering that she has not vaulted in any IHSA meets, she has not been recorded under their records. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 16:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Delete - A quick google check or Emily Clay, pole vault shows some mention in local periodicals and that she has broken some county records but only in a few sentences here and there and localised blogs. I seriously doubt if she has any national or world significance, she is still a high schooler. She might be a prospect in a few years but at present I see a distinct lack of reasoning why she should constitute a world encyclopedic article. Covering high schoolers I think sets a bad example unless they have national significance. Fails WP:BIO. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 21:59, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply - First of all, you can not decide on if an article is notable or not solely by Googling the subject. Next, she does have national significance, or did you just not read the article? She also has world significance for her age. See my responses below. All in all, this article does NOT fail WP:BIO. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 16:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Delete: Lots of ghits, but mainly just listings for competitions. She might hold a junior high school record, but other people are jumping higher than her now, as this link shows:[1] --Seahamlass (talk) 22:06, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect. She is not in College, and considering that you didn't even get that part of the information right, how can you be trusted to have even read anything up? By the way, it is not only county records she has broken. She has broken the Illinois record for girl's pole vault, and she is expected to break the national record in the next to years. (Even though expected usually does not count for anything.) Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 14:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - coverage consists of local high school results. As an athlete, doesn't meet WP:BIO as she is not competing at the top level of her sport, and there is no significant reliable coverage to establish any notability -- Whpq (talk) 20:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

So you are stating that the first freshman in the country to pole vault 12 feet is not notable? She also set the Illinois state record for Junior High. Also, you can't judge to see if a person is notable solely by Googling them. I was there when she did that jump, and I saw her receive that record. You can take a look at the school homepage. [2] She is indeed notable. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 14:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply - yes I am saying that it is not notabble. Where is the coverage from reliable sources to support the notability? Personal observation is not considered a reliable source, nor is the home page of the school that she attends. If you can provide reliable sources, then I'll happily change my vote. but I don't see any, nor can I find any.-- Whpq (talk) 15:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

• My final vote - Keep. Emily Clay is a freshman in High School, and she has not participated in any IHSA (Illinois High School Association) meets, such as Regionals, Sectionals, or State. Therefore, when she vaulted 12 feet at a local meet, no 'authorities' heard about this. I can give references to Junior High meets when she broke both the Illinois and National Records for Girls pole vault, but until the IHSA hosts any of the meets stated by myself above, she will not be recorded on the internet. In about mid to late April, plenty of references will be up that I will be happy to share. Currently, Emily Clay is tied for the World Record for her age, she has broken both the Illinois and National records. All of this was found out in about 2 minutes of research after the meet. So, I vote that this article should be kept and it will be over-suitably referenced by mid to late August. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 02:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply - I'm not sure I understand what you are stating. If she vaulted at an unsanctioned event, then there's no record to be had as there has not been verified oversight of the conditions and measurements. And as for world record for her age , can you explain? According to the IAAF, the world record for girl's pole vault for youth is 4.4 metres (IAAF World record listing for girls youth) which is over 14 feet. -- Whpq (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply - The meet was not unsanctioned. It consisted of 5 teams, and the height was indeed verified, but it was just not posted on the internet. The world record for her age (14-15 years old, freshmen) is 12 foot also. She is expected to break this height by the next meet, on Tuesday. The world record that you posted for youth is under 18. She still has four more years to break this. By mid-April as I stated above, she will be recorded as the Illinois state record holder. Considering that she has not vaulted in any IHSA meets yet, her height has not be recorded in any site other than local records. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 16:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any references for the current world record for 14-15? The IAAF does not appear to have any such age categorisation. As for the sanctioning, what was the sanctioning body? As you can see, reliable sources remain a problem. -- Whpq (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I have a reference, but it is not online. It is in a book/pamphlet/magazine that states the records. The sanctioning body was Illinois Wesleyan University; they held the meet for the 5 or 6 local high schools. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 18:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I would expect that the Illinois Wesleyan University woiuld be the host, but an organisation such as the NCAA would be the sanctioning body, except the NCAA covers college sports. And you stated it wasn't IHSA which I would assume would be the sanctioning body. -- Whpq (talk) 19:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The only times that the IHSA sanctions during track is during Regionals, Sectionals, or State. IWU chose to hold an indoor track meet for the relatively local high schools. The majority of High School track meets are run by high schools. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 20:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. There are no reliable secondary sources, and, based on the discussion above, it appears that the notability of the subject was established only by original research. Ketsuekigata (talk) 20:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply. Incorrect. The nobility of the subject was NOT established only by individual research, or did you not read the discussion above? There is a meet at IWU this Saturday-it is like finals for the series of events held there. There will be results posted after that, and I will put them up here. ṜέđṃάяķvίʘĨїήīṣŢ ^{Drop me a line} 03:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.